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The only fight I have of his, where Jackson looked anything like a caveman, was the Graham fight, and that can be excused due to the shape of his eye. Once his eye started closing up, he went into desperation mode that night.

But that counter right hook he landed to kill Graham has textbook.

Julian overall had a good career and he fought some top fighters no question...Ive always liked the guy.If I diminished his resume it was only in response to those who said Barkely wasnt much at `160 or that Duran didnt do anything at `60.

In all honesty they were both past their best days at middleweight..which was where this matchup is.As Doc..said Jackson was already 32 by the time he fought Tate..in a tough fight.Ofcourse Duran was about 33 by the time he moved to middleweight and faced Hagler,Sims,Barkely.

Cant say Duran did nothing at middleweight without mentioning the same thing for the Hawk..thats my point. At `54 they were both better.Duran was quicker and Julian`s eyes hadnt deteriorated.

The shots that Duran hit Barkley with Jackson could not absorb. I do not see this fight being at all competetive. Ron, I was a Jackson fan but he gets overrated on this board to the point that it makes me sick

I actually prefer Julian Jackson in this mythical matchup. For one, he is the larger, stronger and harder puncher of the two.

Also, keep in mind that as Duran moved up from lightweight into the higher weight classes, he left his punch behind. He didn't carry his power with him as he moved up to challenge much larger and stronger opponents.

In addition, being faced with stamina issues, lack of speed and a loss of power at Middleweight, makes this a very difficult matchup for Duran. Coupled, with the fact, that Jackson was a one punch bomber doesn't bode well for Duran. I like Julian Jackson by way of KO in round 3.

Duran was a top p4p puncher at Lightweight. But he could still punch and he did so with perfect precision. No way jackson wins this fight. If they fought 100 times Duran would win every one of them.

I agree, with a lot of what you have to say regarding this mythical matchup. However, there are points that are missing. By the time Duran grew into the 160lb division, he didn't carry his power with him. He left his punch down at the lightweight division.

Also, by the time Duran was 160lber, he was considerably much slower and easier to find as opposed to his earlier years at lightweight. In addition, the heavier weight he was carry on his rather small frame, appeared to have had taken a significant toll on his energy and stamina. His punch output had markedly decreased forcing him to choose his offensive spots very carefully.

In addition, by the time he turned middleweight he had no legs as in times past, to cut off the ring of his opponents. The extra 30 lbs, had really taken its toll on his body. This is was why Ray Leonard was able to box circles around him in the very same year he defeated Iran Barkley in 89.

Furthermore, by the time he turned 160, he was not the same fighter as he once was. He went from being a classic boxer puncher to just a mere counterpuncher. That's why he would frequently let minutes of each round pass by without throwing a single punch because it was his way of attempting to conserve energy in the later rounds.

Now lastly, he would often fight in spurts and look to counter his opponents. This is what he used to defeat Iran Barkley back in 1989, because Barkley was foolish enough to stand right in front of Duran and trade with him. This gave Duran many countering scoring opportunities. However, if Iran was a huge puncher he would have easily stopped Duran as William Joppy did back in 1998.

Barkley was a very big puncher and lets not compare a 37 yr old to a 47 yr old Duran......ok.

Did you see the Barkley fight? He hit Duran with a left hook in the 8th round that spun him around exorcist style. Duran could take what Jackson had to give and no one would stop Duran easily.

He certainly didn't push Hearns but he had to literally hit him with the kitchen sink and Duran still beat the 10 count.

Foolish child.

I suppose Jackson would employ lateral movement and ring generalship to not stand in front of Duran?

Duran still had good pop at the higher weights...especially his righthand.The Barkely fight proves this.Iran was a guy with a good chin and Duran wobbled him in the very first round..and floored him late.

Duran couldnt cut the ring as well as he did in his prime but why would he have to? Julian isnt mover or slick guy..he isnt hard to find at all in there.Julian would be foolish enough to stand and trade as well thats why I pick Duran.Being the counterpuncher here is to Duran`s advantage.He had more knowledge than Jackson.

If the Joppy fight proved anything its what a great chin Duran possessed..here was a 48 year old man..who was prime at lightweight..getting nailed by a 25 year old natural middleweight and he still never went down.But that fight was criminal anyway it shouldve never happened.


Thats a good point.That same punch iced Tommy Hearns early yet Duran took it and fought right back...it was impressive.

I agree that a slick,moblie boxer with height and speed would beat Duran at these weights..Sims,Benitez,Leonard etc..not a slugger/brawler..just not a good style to face Duran.

There's a difference between good pop, when you land the perfect punch, and actually having consistent power. Duran just was not a puncher at middleweight (or even at 154). Sven Ottke laid out Anthony Mundine with 1 punch. If we were to do mythical match-ups with Ottke, would everyone keep bringing that fight up, as a predictor of what he was capable of? Duran fought many times above 147, against good opponents, and he very rarely hurt anyone decent.

I asked for an example of Duran beating up and stopping a good middleweight, and Mark brings up the Barkley fight. That's a split decision win, not a KO stoppage.

I won't argue that Duran will have success countering, but he's going to have to stand in against a guy who punches very hard, goes to the body, and throws combos. The fact that Jackson wasn't only a head hunter and wasn't a one punch at a time fighter is going to make things hard on Duran. These two guys are going to be right in front of each other, and I don't see how Duran's going to avoid getting hit, especially to the body. Jackson will do damage in this fight.

He brought a lot that Duran would have to worry about, and is getting sold way short.

I dont think Jackson sucks..He was good...I believe sometimes these fights come down to who can catch better..not who hits harder punch for punch.Jackson will hit Duran no question..I dont believe he`ll land as cleanly or consistantly but he will eat clean counters.

This is basically a style problem for Julian IMV..Im sure he can beat some middleweights that Duran couldnt catch.

As a matter of fact, I did watch the Barkley Duran fight and I tell you what? Duran received a gift decision that night. Barkley continued to outhustle and beat Duran to the punch. There was no way that Duran deserved the win in that fight; Knockdown or not. Yes Duran landed the most damaging and effective of the blows that were landed, but Barkley threw and landed more of them. Once again, Duran won this fight on effective counterpunching and fighting in spurts. Again he would allow several minutes; To go by in each round without throwing a single punch, before opening up with a savage conterattack.

This was an outdated Duran of course; By this time he had lost most of his reflexes and upper body movement. In addition, he had become more of a stationary flat-footed opponent by the time he fought at middleweight. In all my years of watching Roberto Duran fight, I have never seen him catch as many flesh head shots as he did in the Iran Barkley fight.

This fact couldn't have been any truer, when he challenged Sugar Ray Leonard for his Super middleweight title that same year. Leonard exposed Duran as a washed up old boxer who skills had substantially deterioriated. Duran threw hardly any punches in that fight, showed very little upper body movement and virtually no lower body movement at all. By this time, he had no legs to cut off the ring. He just allowed an equally over of the hill Sugar Ray Leonard to outbox him silly in this match. Why because Leonard fought a very intelligent fight? He wouldn't just stand there and trade on the dime with Duran, because even though Duran was well past his prime and an aging fighter; He was still very dangerous. So Leonard took all counterpunching opportunities away from him by moving laterally and circling. Unlike Iran Barkley who 10 months earlier, lost his Middleweight crown to him, by standing flat-footed to trade punches, which allowed Duran effective counterpunching opportunities.

One other thing, Barkley was never a puncher. Aside from the knockout of Thomas Hearns, he was always a brawler slugger type, that try to wear down his opponents with cumulative shots. In addition, he had a very bad chin to go along with that also. He had decent power, but no objective boxing observer would characterize Barkley as a puncher. He only recorded 28 knockouts out of his 43 victories and was stopped at least 7 times in his career as well. With that being said, it means that he didn't have the best of chins also.

Exactly...This validates what Ive been saying the entire topic..Duran was still dangerous your right..but you contradicted yourself a little bit.Why would Leonard had to move away from a guy that didnt bring any power up? Do you think Julian would take Duran`s counterpunchering opportunities away? Or would he play into them?

Highly doubtful that Julian Jackson would fight a very intelligent fight by moving laterally.That wasnt who he was.

The Duran that fought Hagler was quite a bit younger and better than the one that fought Barkely anyway.That was `83...he gave Marvin an outstanding fight...Hagler is one of the greatest middleweights of alltime...why didnt he floor Duran? Or have him in serious trouble over 15 rounds? Hagler could punch...and was more skilled than Jackson.

Hmm... Interesting, I said that as Duran moved up in weight he left his punch behind. In addition, he didn't carry his power with him as he moved up to the higher weight classes to challenge larger and stronger opponents.

In addition, he had lost some of his reflexes, stamina and legs. Not to mention his upper and lower body movements as well; This is what made him slower; And easier for his opponents to find and hit. Also, because of the lack of stamina, it would force him to take several minutes off each round, without throwing a single punch before opening up with a barrage of counterpunches. This is why Iran Barkley went the distance with him after previously being rocked and dropped later in their fight, because he threw fewer punches; For the lack of energy to throw more.

Also, it was the reason why he struggled and labored putting away Davey Moore, even after being partially blind and having him in serious trouble for nearly two rounds. He couldn't knock the larger and stronger Moore off his feet, exhausting much energy and stamina in the process until the fight was finally waved off by New York State Commissioner Jose Torres.

Marvin Hagler admitted to being tight in his fight with Roberto Duran back in 1983. He had expected the Duran of old to pressure and swarm him as he looked for counterpunching opportunities. This strategy nearly cost him his title however, but he swept the championship rounds winning a very narrow decision. This fight would mark the beginning of the new Duran as the counterpuncher.

With Julian Jackson being the larger, stronger and harder puncher of the two, he would have given Roberto Duran fits. This is actually a bad matchup for Roberto for several reasons. One Julian Jackson was not a brawler, slugger and swarming type of boxer, who liked to fight on the inside as an Iran Barkley.

He was the typical boxer puncher who enjoyed staying on the outside to get that extra leverage on his punches. If he attempted to swarm Duran as Barkley did, it would have smothered and neutralized his greatest strength which was his power. This is how Hearns KO'd Duran by keeping him at bay with his long reach and height. I believe that Julian Jackson, since he was a puncher himself, would have implemented a similar style, in defeating Roberto Duran by keeping Duran, on the outside as much as possible, so he could land his huge bombs against him. This way Julian Jackson could easily utilize his natural gifts of size, height and reach.

However, if Julian Jackson had a style of an Antonio Margarito for example, it would have made for a very interesting scrap because of his reputation of being a swarmer. The very same could easily be said about Sugar Ray Leonard. Leonard had to dance, circle and move laterally; Against the smaller and slower Roberto Duran, because he was not a puncher. Leonard was a boxer. Always has and always will. In addition, even if Leonard had decided to sit down on his punches against Duran he wouldn't have been in anymore danger of being stopped than Iran Barkley. Remember that Duran had two previous chances of finishing Leonard before the rubber match in 1989, but failed both times. However at the same time, the odds of Leonard stopping Duran were slim to none. So outboxing him was the most practical thing for him to do in that situation.

I am about done with you on this subject. But the reason Leonard ran from Duran was evidenced in the last round. He got too close and a single right hand exploded his eye.

Manos de piedra doesn't stand for hands of sissy

So you didnt see the part where Duran put Moore on his behind with one punch?...


Doubtful..Thats not how Julian fought.He didnt have Hearns natural physical gifts...of height,great handspeed and a blinding jab...

Jackson isn't as soft chinned as he's being made out to be by the guys taking Duran's side. It would definitely take the majority of 12 to knock out JJ. And in that majority, Julian will land punches. Can Duran take those punches for more than 4 rounds. I have my doubts. We're talking about an all time P4P puncher here. No matter what you think of his skills.

Yes I saw that part, but I also saw the part where he had gotten up off of the canvass as Iran Barkley did as Duran had struggled to put either of them away. Why? Because he lacked the same size and power he had over his opponents at lightweight to finish the much larger and stronger opponents at the higher weights. Had not been for New York's Commissioner Joes Torres decision to call a halt to the fight. It would have been more likely than not that Davey Moore would have gone the distance to hear the final bell with Duran. Because up until that point, Duran had exhausted an awful amount of punches, energy, rounds and stamina in his attempt to put Davey Moore away.




Julian Jackson, if you would agree was not a swarming, pressure, inside fighting type of fighter at all. As all punchers, he worked behind his jab, That is how he caught Terry Norris with an extending right hand to Norris chin against the ropes. Julian needed as much punching space and distance as Thomas Hearns when utilizing his punching power.

Since when did Hearns possess great handspeed? If he did, I've never seen it. Julian Jackson would have enjoy the natural gift of height against Roberto Duran. I believe Julian Jackson stood about 5'10 1/2 to Roberto Duran's 5'7. This would give him the added physical edges in height, reach and size. It would've been more than enough physical ability to keep the much smaller and weaker man at arms length to crack him.

Allright then.

Roberto Duran has more in common with Mike McCallum as a fighter than Jackson does with Hearns.


Why does he have to be soft chinned? When a guy is banging clean counters round after round even a guy with a decent chin would wilt.I think Duran`s chin could hold up to Jackson...I guess thats where the divide is.Roberto love him or hate him was one tough SOB with a crafty defense.I dont think you have to be a Duran fan to acknowledge that.

As I stated before I think Jackson couldve beaten some middleweights that Duran couldnt have beaten because of this crippling power and natural size and strength.

Just to clarify. Thomas Hearns never had great handspeed?

Dude you really need to get some tapes. He may have had the fastest jab in history and his hands were faster then Leonards. But you obviously have never seen that fight.

To clarify Hearns didnt have great handspeed. Duran left his power at lightweight but was still very dangerous. Duran didn't have much of a defense or chin because he wasnt as active as his earlier days.

You know better then that.

I do not know if Tommy handspeed was faster than SRL but his jab was by far faster.It is hard to tell cause srl would put more punches 2gether and it would look hell of fast.Hearns did not really put his punches 2gether like that.Hearns jab was one of the fastest in the history of Boxing he really painted SRL with that jab all nite in 1981.

Hearns was a combination of range and speed we're not likely to ever see again. His arms were so long that what speed he lacked was made up for by the fact that he could get there so fast.

If his punches are getting there fast then he has great speed.

they didn't call him the motor city COBRA cuz he was ponderous.

I thought that Hearns was the faster guy in that fight. This never changes, no matter how many times I watch it. In Rays defense, though, he did have to wing alot of shots against the more rangy Hearns.

I watched Barkley/Duran again today. I haven't watched it in a couple years. What a hell of a fight. Great great stuff.

Jackson's just not going to provide Duran with the same openings round after round. Barkley made a lot more fundamental mistakes than Jackson did, and was much easier to counter. For starters, Jackson kept his hands up, with a much tighter guard. Just by doing that, he's ahead of Barkley.

The big shot that Duran landed in the first round against Barkley happened because Barkley had his left hand down around his waist after throwing a jab, something Jackson didn't do. That was Duran's bread and butter in that fight. Landing that right hand counter, and it's just not going to be nearly as easy to do against Jackson.

Anyway, enjoyed watching the fight again.

Not to mention how offensively superior Jackson is. And it's by a significant amount. No arm punches and he's fast. He's also not just gonna let Duran sit in his chest for 2 minutes and 30 seconds a round.

Those are fair points.

The thing about Duran/Barkely that made it so great was that I believe The Blade fought better than he ever has that night in AC.He worked the body,threw nice combos,even used his jab and kept his composure.

After the fight they asked Barkley what happened,whyd he lose?..."I did everything I was supposed to do...it was his will...it just wouldnt go...it just wouldnt go..."

Barkley definitely came to fight that night.

I have no doubt that was the best Barkley we've ever seen.

I just don't think that Barkley is as dangerous as Jackson.

Hmmm....

We`ve discussed Hearns/Duran..but Im not being a smartass...what happened in Jackson/McCalllum? I havent seen that fight in years....I know Julian was stopped early.

The quality isn't great, but here it is: Jackson/McCallum on youtube

Left hook on the button. Jackson got up, and instead of trying to clear his head, decided to trade, and McCallum poured it on. Jackson was covering up on the ropes, but appeared clear headed when it was stopped (although he wasn't firing back).

What a great fight that was for as long as it lasts.

I would like to make sure that the guys who back Durans know that I see heir side of the case. I believe you can take a few relevant things from this fight with McCallum, actually. But Mike is a HOFer and proved to be pretty good as a light heavyweight.

I only slightly favour The Hawk. He is so strong and fast and accurate, man... I really think he can hurt Duran early, though if they fought 10 times I'd take Duran by KO in all of his 4 wins.