warning, random thoughts ahead. Im posting this as im trying to sort it out in my head.

both men can be stunned, both men can handle being stunned and rocked.

Both men have incredible wind, both men have explosive power.


I dont really know where the edge lies here. I would say Pryor has a slightly better chin, Pac a slightly faster punch. Pac, although hes no Pernell, moves and boxes a little better than Pryor but both men tend to war.

Pryor may have a little more lead in his fists but its tough to call, lets take Pac from the Hatton fight. Dude was a muscled up monster, and his accuracy makes his speed even deadlier. Rickys jaw isnt granite but Pac wobbled him from the first seconds of the fight. You cant fake that.

Arguello managed to wobble Aaron, i would like to think Manny could. But i dont know if i see Manny outgutting Aaron down the stretch. Make no mistake this would be nuclear holocaust, the kind of fight both fighters come away a little different. Somebody probably gets their career shortened here.

I cant really call it. Arguello gave Aaron pure hell. I think Manny is faster than Alexis, but he doesnt have his height or ring discipline. I can see Manny repeatedly getting off first, but i can also see The Hawk shaking a lot of that off and landing bigger bombs than anything Pac has eaten to date. I think Pryors power is a fair shake better than JMM's and he rocked Manny a few times.

Your thoughts.

again, pure war. The announcers are hoarse after this one.


pic related, its the fight.

I just have no idea who I'd favor. Pryor would finally be in with someone faster than him. Pac would be in with someone who was as explosive as he was throughout the entire fight, and who could eat his bombs and keep coming. What does Pac do when a guy has been eating his best stuff (and probably gotten up from a knockdown or two) and is not only coming forward in the 10th round, but windmilling hard shots to the body? What does Aaron do when he's getting beaten to the punch over and over by a guy who hits like a mule?

It stands to reason that it would be Pac early, Pryor late, but even that I'm not sure of. No prediction but war.

I need a drink

Very tough to call, but I'll take Pryor close and obviously in a blood and guts war. Just because I think he has everything necessary to stand up to Manny's stuff. Can't say for sure, but I have a feeling he's the slightly harder man.

Pacs has faster hands than Arguello. I dont think thats really so crazy to say.

With their respective style, I think there is a great chance the fight could be an explosive but short affair(but could also see it going for 10+ rounds or even 12, considering the toughness of both). They will come to fight and they both can hit hard. Something similar to Hagler-Hearns, maybe?

As far as the result is concerned, I can see both of them winning, but maybe Pac can pull this one off. Pryor's volume punching would be nothing like anything Pac has seen before, but Pac's speed might be the same for Pryor. Speed might be the difference in this fight, and I don't know if Pryor can counter Manny like JMM did. But who knows?

I thought it was crazy
that you had to think about it


it'd be like me saying
I think an FZR is faster than a Gold Star


no offense

A trilogy with enormous earning power...

Fight I - Pacquiao TKO6 Pryor

Pryor down twice in the first, completely shell-shocked by Pacquiao's speed & hitting power. He recovers admirably, but never really gets going after the horror start. A bad cut opened in the third ends the fight at the end of six rounds. Doctor's orders.

"He was just too quick for me. I really don't have anything else to add, & nor do I want to." - Aaron Pryor.

Fight II - Pryor TKO13 Pacquiao

Pryor down again in the opening round, this time once. Pacquiao cut heavily over the right eye in the fourth, & close to being down in the ninth. Each man wobbled repeatedly. Pryor finishes it in the thirteenth with awe-inspiring volume & brutality. Pacquiao is referee-rescued, his battered face testimony to a war from both men.

"Well, Sir, I, ummm...tried to, ummm...win it early for my people, but he, heee...was very strong inside, & out. I tried my best. He, he was...better than the first fight, & the cut was bad for me. I'm sorry." - Manny Pacquiao.

Fight III - Pryor MD15 Pacquiao

Pacquiao down for the first time in the trilogy, hitting the deck uninjured in the fourth. "Yeah, come on!" his body language seems to suggest as he raises his hands with a smile. The crowd loves his next move. After getting up & raising his arms, Pacquiao's snarl precedes a stunning trademark volley of super-speed powershots, emphasising that which Pryor fears most. Pryor recuperates & sweeps four rounds between the ninth-twelfth, proving critical in the overall scoring. Some feel Pacquiao did enough, & it was Pryor who was hanging on as the final bell sounded, wounded by a fast-finishing Pacquiao.

"Never again," Pryor jokes afterward.

"He's a great fighter, &, ummm...I hope the people enjoyed the fight very much," remarks a clearly-dejected Pacquiao.

The first round of their first fight, if it didn't go the way I called it here, has the chance to be an instant classic.

Pryor.

With difficulty? Without? Inside the distance, early, mid or late, or on decision? Any knockdowns, cuts, swelling, fouls? Ten-count, or stoppage?

C'mon & feed us

what weight?

we'll probably get more insight to this fight after Nov. 14 after seeing how Pac fares against Cotto.

I agree, im getting so stoked for this its ridiculous.


Finally a fight where someone cant take credit from Manny for winning.

Why? You don't think that Pac has done enough? Pryor was a natural lightweight who had to move to 140 to get a title shot, but he wasn't a big or even natural 140er.

Which fight are you taking Pryor at - his fights against Arguello (who was in his 13th weight class) or against Cervantes (who had just turned 57)? I don't think Arguello, at that point in his career, would've been as competitive against Pac and I don't see Cervantes doing anything against Pac!

Pryor gets WAAAAAY overrated on these boards!! Manny would be compared to Robinson today if he'd fought Pryor's competition!

Their resumes aren't in the ring though.

Pryor was a bad ass. Pac is a bad ass.

If they fight, who wins and why?

This is has me thinking, I have to get back to this one later on today. Sly Fox made to good pointers but I will speculate later one

Arguello was 29 years old and fighting great at that point in his career. I agree with your other point. Pryor was basically a 135lbr fighting at 40. Arguello was the bigger man if anything in those fights with the Hawk.

ETM had moved up naturally over a period of years as his body told him it was time to move up.

Arguello not being competitive against Pac is interesting. I think Alexis the way he fought that day wouldve had a good shot at beating Pacquiao and alot of other fighters.

Think about it. If this fight couldve actually happened and Pryor was to win the same exact excuse would be used. Manny was in his 13th division and just blown up too much.






How is he rated?

Diaz and Hatton wouldnt have given Pryor much trouble. That version of DLH wouldve been skullfuked by Pryor.

Pacman has done plenty. But outside of Hatton who has he beaten at 140. Pryor had a great chin, and while he often left it out there to be hit, I never saw him in dire trouble during his prime. I can see Pacman knocking him down, but I doubt he'd put Pryor out. And Pryor was a great swarmer. I think Pacman would have his handsfull dealing with the volume of punches Pryor would be putting on him. Particularly the body punches.

Cervantes was one of the great 140 lbrs, and he wasn't past his prime heading into that fight IMO. Pryor just shoved him over the cliff. Arguello would have given Pacman serious trouble. Alexis had more power than JMM or Morales, both of whom managed to hurt Pacman in their fights and was at least their equal as a boxer. Pacman might have beaten Arguello, but he'd have had his hands full.

I'd go with Pryor by late rounds KO or TKO in a war.

I don't think that Arguello was bad at that weight, but he wasn't HOFer at that weight either. #4# (Arguello being at 126-130, I think ETM would've been too strong for Pryor and he would've been able to keep up with Pryor's output.


I didn't say he WOULDN'T be competitive, I said he wouldn't be AS competitive. Manny is faster than Pryor, slicker than Pryor, harder to hit than Pryor, hits just as hard as Pryor, and throws punches from all angles. Arguello was too flat-footed and would've just been a target for Manny at that weight.

Hatton wouldn't have taken Pryor, but I think he would've lasted till the mid to late rounds before being stopped. Pac knocked him out COLD with ONE PUNCH in the second! And Pryor would've taken DLH at that stage in DLH's career too, but it was Manny's speed and movement that stopped Oscar in that fight.

You're assuming that Pryor is going to stand toe-to-toe with Manny and keep up with MANNY'S output. Pac was faster and had a better arsenal in his offense! How is PRYOR going to deal with MANNY'S volume? Pac is not the easiest to hit, but there's no secret on how to land on Pryor.

Is everyone ignoring the fact that a documentary came out recently where it was stated that Lewis DID put something in his bottle to enhance is endurance/energy level and give him an unfair advantage? It was all speculation up until this came out, but Resto STATED that it was some asthma medication that opened up the lungs and gave the fighter energy! Who knows how long or how often Pryor had this? It's like having a great fighter enhancing themselves by using steroids and beating another great fighter. Can you really make this a fair comparison?

I think Manny doesn't have a single clear advantage against Pryor at 140. Not speed, not power, not stamina, not skill. Pryor had a better chin, could go 15 rounds, threw more fucking punches and could box his ass off when he needed to. Who the fuck has Manny shown these superior boxing skills against? Diaz? DLH? Hatton? Pryor would have obliterated those guys on his way to a fight.

I don't see a single way Manny could win this fight. Both guys are buzzsaws, can hit, and throw way too fast. Both can get drawn into firefights. At some point Pryor and Manny would get it on no matter what the previous gameplans and I honestly can't see Manny getting the better of it in the long run. Not by knock out, not by points. I basically think he'd 100% get TKO'd if they fought 15 rounds and would probably get TKO'd if they fought 12 rounds.

K X P

I am inclined to learn in Pryor's favour, but I don't see how you can possibly discount Pacquiao's chances against a fighter as hittable & war-friendly as Pryor. This is a tremendous fight --- don't think for a second Pacquiao can't hurt Pryor --- he hurts everyone he touches.

Ah yes, the old "So-and-so's competition can't beat him so So-and-so doesn't stand a chance!" Good one

You think that Pryor holds every advantage? You're high! Pac IS faster, has better head movement, better foot movement, and has better endurance (even IF Pryor gets his "boost")!

I can see it now: if Pac beats Cotto, you'll be saying "Well, Cotto was NO 35 year old Cervantes or an Arguello fighting above his prime weight, so Pryor stops Manny!"

It would be a good fight if Pryor decided to go to war, at which point he'd get knocked down a fair few times and maybe lose a decision if it went 12 rounds.

I think if Pryor fought like he fought Arguello in the second fight, he beats Pacquiao by decision. Pac is quicker than Pryor but I think Pryor is more versatile.



Pac has better foot movement and he'd have to use all of it, because if he stands toe to toe with Pryor, Aaron has the better upper body defense and would likely get the better of him in the long run in that type of situation.

If Pac is moving and picking his spots he has every shot of winning, but Pac is going to brawl eventually.

I think a lot of that is bullshit. If it worked so well how come no other sport has ever been using it? Wheres the test for it? How come every fighters not using it in his corner on the sly? Nothing i know of dissolves through your stomach lining in a matter of two minutes, much less seconds spent in the corner. NOTHING.

Grain alcohol is the only thing i know of that would dissolve into the capillaires (spelling?) in your mouth, and i doubt it had grain alcohol in it. Everything else known to man that is consumed through your mouth down into your stomach has to dissolve into your stomach walls and into the bloodstream. It just doesnt happen fast enough to make that kind of difference. Pryor didnt inhale anything, that would be instantaneous, he drank it. Then he popped up off his stool like a man with a plan and went to war. I think it was mental game. The man just couldnt be hurt, had crazy stamina and to top it all off Panama Lewis was a master manipulator.

If they come to the center of the ring and the referee pulls out their resumes then its a first round knockout for Manny Pacquiao. Especially for their total careers.

But if this is both guys at their best its a great fight. Its certainly a war. I do agree with the guy who said that hed like to see a little more of Pacquaio at these weights against a live body.

Its not one sided or lopsided at all IMV. Speed is pretty close. Power is pretty close. They both threw alot of leather. Pryor had more of a swarming style. He was like Armstrong in that way. He didnt give his opponent time to think or time to rest.

Manny throws alot too but he is more of a boxer these days. Id give him the advantage defensivley. And being lefthanded could be an advantage.

I dont see anyone counting Pacquaio out or giving him no chance so I dont get the whole Pryor is being overated view.

People just saying it would be a war.

I really would have to see it. Hard to call.


Also they fought again. If Pryor needed something to beat Arguello then I doubt he would have taken an immediate rematch. People will say that Alexis was diminished but he didnt forget how to punch and he nailed Aaron with bombs in that fight too.

Arguello had a different type of punching power than Manny has, and he was a better all-around boxer too. AND he was tough as shit when push came to shove.

Pryor would force a pace Manny wouldn't like and he'd be all up in his face all night.

Pryor by decision, possibly a late stoppage.

K X P apparently think Pacquiao is no chance, so there's at least one.

Pacman would be facing a fighter who would out punch him. It would be a fast pace, furious fight from the 2nd round going on. i do see Pacman getting a flash knock down against Pryor early, that is when the war would begin. While Manny will be taking a breather here and there, Aaron would just keep punching with his two fisted awkard attack. I think the main thing that would seperate the two is Aaron`s upstairs/downstairs combo punching, especially work he does well to the body.


Pryor by late rounds tko, but he has to work every second of every round to get it.

How do you know they DON'T test for it? Do you know everything they test for?



It's interesting that people that have posted here say that Pac doesn't have enough experience at 140 to make a judgment, yet they credit Pryor with stopping Arugello twice as his greatest fights. Well, other than Pryor, who did ARGUELLO fight at 140 that makes this such a credible win for Pryor?

Pryor was a GREAT fighter who looked even greater fighting (other than Arguello) flat-footed bozos! His style was tailor made for those guys. Take Pryor and add head movement, foot movement, a defense, a HOF trainer, make him a southpaw, and put him in against fighters (Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Hatton, etc.) who would wipe their ass with the guys that Pryor fought....and you have Pac!

First you need to reread my post. I am saying that you cannot establish an argument of superior boxing skills on the likes of DLH, Hatton and Diaz. Pryor would have looked like Willie Pep + SRR against those guys when they were at the same state they were in when Manny fought them.

And I am not saying Pryor holds every advantage. I said he doesn't hold a single CLEAR advantage. WTF does that mean? It means the edge in those categories are arguable or toss ups. Then I mentioned the categories that I believe Pryor holds a CLEAR edge. I disagree that Pac has better endurance, foot movement or head movement. You don't. Sadly for you, you are wrong and I am right.

As for Cervantes and Arguello you are reaching. The Arguello wins are better than the Morales wins. Alexis wasn't shot, Erik was. You have to be some sort of special category of nuthugger to call Cervantes past his prime while giving Manny credit for Hatton and Oscar. If Cervantes was past his prime Oscar was buried in his grave.

K X P

Im not sure how Hatton was past his prime, Cervantes obviously was. The AA wins are solid though undoubtedly he was not the same fighter at 140lbs. They were quality wins though. EM was not shot in either of the first two fights though he was diminished, not unlike AA. Arguello's power threat though provided a different element.

It would be a good fight but you have a habit of selling Manny short for whatever reason. Saying Pryor could go 15 rounds as some kind of advantage is a joke no? Pryor trained for 15 round fights, im not sure how you can use that against a guy who fights 12 round fights. Manny was quicker of hand and foot, he also has better head movement. Pryor could move well on his feet though but his boxing ability is not nearly what you are suggesting. It would be a tight fight, they would be pretty evenly matched. The clear advantages you see for Pryor did not exist.

Well the point of mentioning 15 round fights, is I pick for either possibility when you compare guys from the 15 round era to guys now. I've been doing it for quite some time and it has nothing to do with putting anything for or against anyone. I don't see all this quickness of hand and foot Manny has at 140 over Pryor. On what basis? On watching him bludgeon Hatton? I am not sold. Manny isn't fighting guys who laid their best in the ring long ago in wars against other guys and had those wins overhyped or against average guys from whom he could cherrypick straps. I'm also assuming he is not fighting Pryor at the right time like how he caught DLH, Hatton and is now catching Cotto. I am assuming he is fighting the man at 140 at the top of his game and I am under the assumption its not at some ludicrous catchweight that gives Manny the edge his fan club pretend is a disadvantage. If I'm wrong, let me know and I'll change my pick. For instance if this is the Pryor who fought Bobby Jo Young and I'm supposed to put THAT Pryor in against Manny and pretend it was prime Aaron Pryor let me know. I was assuming I could look at this matchup without the Manny goggles.

K X P

Since 15 round fights don't take place anymore, it's not really something you can penalize modern fighters for. Certainly somebody who struggles in terms of their stamina, it would be questionable how they would deal with 15 rounds but there are a lot of guys fighting today who I think could go 15.

AA was no more in his prime for Pryor than was MAB, Marquez or Morales for Pacquiao. If you want to talk about what Manny has done above 130lbs, yeah I agree he hasn't fought there very long but I don't think he's given any reason to believe he isn't legitimate there. You are kinda reach by looking to discredit Manny's wins. Throw the DLH fight out the window, even though DLH was trying to pick on the little guy. Cotto is unquestionably one of the top welters, top 3 at worst really and he's beaten all save for a guy who was proven to be a cheater in his next fight. I mean really, caught Hatton at the right time? I don't even know how you can come from that angle.

It's funny that you give Pryor plenty of credit for AA at 140lbs and worst yet Cervantes at that point but have any excuse for every pacquiao victory. Whatever man, clearly you aren't a fan but that doesn't mean you are without bias.

There is no doubt that Pacquiao Pryor would make for an excellent fight. Both have similarities and perhaps slight edges in certain areas. Manny certainly mixes movement with aggression better than Pryor but Aaron's relentlessness and chin make this top notch.

What did Pryor do that Pacquiao wouldn't have?

Pacquiao has excellent 12-round endurance (especially considering his often-high output) & probably wouldn't have a problem if it was required of him to train for fifteen-rounders.

I give the edge to AP, and a definite edge if Panama Lewis works his corner.

Is Cervantes still alive?

If he is I`d take him over Hatton.


Right now.

As long as one of his lungs is functioning he`ll have enough. Its not like Ricky is going to outbox him.

This is my point the other way around. What did Manny have that Pryor didn't other than being a southpaw? They were both fast, aggressive, could move, could hit but Pryor threw more, he had more stamina and he was proven at the weight. I see a great fight but Pryor wins each and everytime and all Manny's fans could then claim it was just like the Arguello win where Manny was this much smaller guy etc. etc.

I completely disagree that Arguello was as gone as Morales. Arguello didn't get whitewashed by a guy who has done nothing since the way El Terrible was by Raheem. He didn't go through all these hellacious wars the way Terrible went and even MAB went although I give Manny full credit for the first MAB win where MAB was probably just leaving his peak. Cervantes was handling his business until he ran into the Hawk and was probably where MAB was in fight 1 with the Pacman. A good, fighter who could handle business against just about anybody and be in it against just about anybody except the one guy who stopped his run - a guy who just had too much physicality, toughness, aggression, speed, power, stamina and killer instinct. And if you don't think a criticism of Hatton's ability prior to the fight is warranted I don't know what to say. My pick was he would either win late or lose early and that was based squarely on how vulnerable he'd been looking against guys who didn't have KO power let alone a monster like Pac.

K X P

As I said, I think Manny these days stands in front of his opponent at lot less than Pryor did. He works angles better and he's got quicker hands and feet. If Pryor threw more, it wasn't by much and if he had better stamina, it wasn't by much. Pacquiao has shown less than great stamina the few times he really struggled to make weight, that's about it.

I don't see how you can even compare Pacquiao to AA who couldn't keep up with the speed and activity. Not to mention he was not a mobile guy, hugely different dynamics here.

AA looked diminished by that point, I've never even heard anybody argue otherwise. I think Pryor deserves credit for the wins but it seems you believe he deserves considerably more so. EM lost to Raheem what 8-4? Looked bad but it was a new weight, he looked like he hadn't trained and Raheem fought very negatively. When Morales returned to jr lightweight for the rematch, he appeared considerably better than the guy who showed up for Raheem. Though there is no doubt, he was showing effects from his wars. Cervantes was at the same point as MAB? Really? What was he like 40 years old? Im not sure how you can say that, honestly.

Whether you picked Hatton to lose or not, doesn't really detract from what I'm saying. I thought Hatton looked solid still.

Take your pants off.

This has taken an interesting turn...

Is Roy Campanella still alive? I'd take him over 98% of Pryor's competition.

"Except the one guy who stopped his run"? How long was this run? I seem to remember him losing to 17 year old a few years earlier while Cervantes was still in his 30s.

And if Pryor was really as good you think he was, why didn't he just move up in weight to where the real competition was?