I give it to Chavez. Too tough and he hits too hard.

pac whoops his ass in every weight class.

Pacquiao at 130 and Chavez at `35 and `40.

That is just as I see it. Pacquiao was probably the better overall package at Jr. Light, but Chavez appeals to me strongly in the next two divisions. I was discussing Pacquiao against Castillo at Lightweight recently, & I was starting to think Pacquiao would be an underdog in that one, much less against the beast which was Chavez (particularly at Lightweight). I think he actually stops Pacquiao at Jr. Welter.

It'd be savage business, & Chavez would have to work hard for his meal --- but earn it, I fancy he would. Pacquiao'd take a rib-tickling like he's never dreamed of, & it'd tell on him eventually.

Edit: Just saw this was at a catchweight. Which?

I agree with you. If Meldrick was on the verge of beating Chavez without having the strength, power and awkwardness that Pacman brings to the ring, I don't see why Pacman could outwork Chavez. Not that it would be easy, but the slower, somewhat plodding Chavez would have a lot of trouble grinding down Pacman- he would be eating very hard leather in the process.

There really aren't many (if any) significant comparisons you can draw between Taylor & Pacquiao. Taylor was the bigger man, more suited to the weight of Jr. Welter. Taylor was just as quick with his hands & just as active with his offense, though, even at 140lbs, he lacks Pacquiao's power. He's probably more durable than Pacquiao was, & has fewer defensive lapses. He's caught off-balance --- therefore, counter-vulnerable --- than Pacquiao, but lacks the experience (at the time he fights Chavez in 1990) which Pacquiao would bring.

Whoever you pick, I'm not sure you can point to Taylor's large success (in a fight he nonetheless lost, I might add) as a blueprint for Pacquiao.

Chavez beats him in any weight class. JCC always found a way to beat guys with any style.


On a side note, if Chavez and Taylor had never fought, I would have picked Taylor in a MM matchup every time.

I remember picking Chavez at the time, & feeling pretty confident in doing so. You should have watched that confidence evaporate as the fight unfolded. I could hardly believe it, LOL.

If Taylor was just as quick with his hands, why can't you determine that Manny's hand speed would bother Chavez?

True, Taylor did lose. But Tyrone Everett "lost" to Escalera as well. I would look more at Frankie Randall's success than Meldrick's. His straight right hand was quick and pretty disguised, Chavez couldn't avoid it for the life of him.

To me Manny is just the better fighter who would find a way to win. Chavez wasn't nearly as relentless after getting tagged with something he felt. Be it Rocky Lockridge, Juan Laporte or Pernell Whitaker.

I do agree the fights are tougher at 35 & 40 than the thrashing it would be at 30.




I had a good chunk of change on Meldrick, a ton of money on Pea & money on Randall in the rematch. Three gigantic robberies.

I absolutely think Pacquiao's handspeed is going to be a recurring problem for Chavez --- I was just stating the similarities between Pacquiao & Taylor weren't great in number. Pacquiao's speed, especially when coupled with his power, would certainly be a formidable obstacle for Chavez. However, I don't see him putting a peak Chavez away.

The most amazing thing to me watching Chavez coming up was that, as remarkable as his cast-iron jaw was, it was superceded by his sheer will. During the telecast for the first fight with Taylor, Larry Merchant commented that Angelo Dundee had been moved to call Chavez the toughest fighter he had seen, bar none. I don't rate Dundee as a trainer as highly as some, but this is a man who's trained boxers opposite the likes of Frazier & Hagler (among others), so it's sterling praise. I think it's a critical element of this fight.

Why? It's obvious Chavez, with his style & speed deficiency, is going to have to absorb plenty. A lesser man with his approach would wilt in the face of Pacquiao's awesome offense, but Chavez was made of something else. Pacquiao's tough, but I have no doubt he's not as tough --- no disrespect to him, as he's had some hard moments.

I don't know when I've seen Pacquiao need to really question his power against an opponent who is available to be hit --- something which just might be the case, here. I don't know when I've seen his ribs worked anywhere close to how Chavez would work them, & I do think Chavez finds the range, somewhere in the latter stages of the fight's first half. Pacquiao's always had that lean waist, which is not great news, here.

Re: Your money. I scored the Chavez-Randall sequel twice (many years ago) & had it for Randall by a point each time. I can't call that a robbery, but that's just my take. Too close, even if I thought Randall deserved it. I have always been comfortable with the fairness of the first fight with Taylor, so I don't consider that a robbery, either. The fight with Whitaker, on the other hand, was appalling. Chavez was roundly-schooled.

Chavez will was admirable in the Taylor fight, not so much in other outings. Such as the Randall fiasco when he quit with possibly knowing the outcomes of the judges cards before they were read.

Julio was a tough dude, I don't see him getting stopped unless it's on cuts. A knockdown is definitely possible. He was hurt by shots he didn't see coming. As for Pac questioning his power, why would he? He didn't get discouraged wailing on Diaz or Oscar round after round and he came back hard against Morales after being unable to hurt him in the first fight.

You're selling Pacquaio short mentally if you think he would get discouraged because Chavez didn't fall down.

JCC was a hard man, but he would have more probability in getting frustrated imo. Based on watching him do it. I didn't catch any refuting that Julio's pressure went significantly down when he felt his opponents punches. I find that to be a bigger key in the fight than who Angelo Dundee feels is tougher.

Many are comfortable with the Taylor fight and that is certainly their right. It was one of the most despicable things I have ever seen in my lifetime and the right man didn't win.

Manny would be far and away the greatest victory of Chavez career. The other way? Highly debatable.

The guys that Manny has beaten so far at `35 and `40 couldnt spar with Chavez.

Im sure Pacquiao could bother him but Julio was a master at cutting the ring and investing in a brutal and consistant body attack. He was the definition of heavyhanded.

Meldrick Taylor was as fast as they come and he had alot of physical strength if not a hard puncher. Yet he caught a frightful beating. I dont think that the average fighter could take even half that much. Roger Mayweather also had good power and got grind down into a fine powder. Rosario, none of those guys stopped Chavez from coming forward.

Juan Laporte backed him up, Chavez was no punk, lets not act like manny is just another cab driver.

The Taylor that Chavez faced was a great fighter and he schooled Chavez accordingly. I'm not saying Julio wouldn't get his licks in, just don't see him winning.

Epic fight, but I would pick Pacquiao every time. He's not only leagues faster, he hits like a freight train and now, he's the bigger man as well. Aside from Pernell Whitaker, Pacquiao would easily be the best fighter Chavez would've ever faced (and Whitaker handed Chavez his ass).

Chavez was a very good fighter and tough as nails, but he tends to get overrated (to put it mildly).

I'm solidly behind Pacman in this one.

Chavez is too slow of foot and hand. He gets caught up the middle. He also doesn't have the big power to slow shit down.

JCC was a grinder. I don't think the power is there to turn this one around within 12.

I actually think this is an easy one. Manny is just too quick and Chavez is a pretty easy target, even on his best day. This is no Armstrong, who was perpetual motion.

I'd be comfortable taking Chavez to beat or hang with ANYONE who just came to fight and stood their ground. It's clear though that speed and some movement fuck with what he does.

I'm a big fan of his way of fighting, he just doesn't have the style or the physical attributes to deal with Manny.

12 rounds- Pac for sure.

24 rounds- Chavez.

Rarely do I ever think a match-up between greats is clear, but this one of them.

I'm going to be a bit blunt with this statement, so excuse me, but...

if you have Chavez in this matchup, you're giving him credit for head movement, defensive skills and power that he never had. You may also need to check where you stand on Manny's stamina. No disrespect intended, just the way I see it, and I think it's easy.


edit- Not to say it would be easy. Just that the winner isn't in much doubt, IMO.

12 rounds is not enough. Pac by 8-4 decision.

Gospel, except picking Chavez in 24rds. His face could never endure that long.

could Pac outbox Chavez? or does he just offense his way to victory?

im pickin chavez....i'd think he'd rough manny up on the inside.....chavez by decision....

Getting side on a fast (hands and feet) fighter is not easy with slow feet and little head movement.

Chavez, it's worth pointing out, isn't the only fighter who is pretty hittable in the ring here. My gut just says Chavez withstands the early heat --- Pacquiao doesn't down the stretch.

i think we might be underating chavez a lil bit....he didnt have slow hands...or cement feet either...he wasnt the fastest either..a prime chavez i think is fast enough to get inside on manny..this isnt the chavez that fought randall or whitaker....

Yes --- Chavez wasn't the shell who tackled Tszyu, for instance, but he was not the same man by the time he reached Whitaker & Randall. He was absolutely a beast in & around the Lightweight class, & I see him giving almost any great from there (he would always have lost to Whitaker, mind) a night they won't wish to re-live in a hurry, irrespective of the outcome.

Pacquiao'd be one of those men, but I'm not sure he'd come away with a win against the peak Chavez, whose brutality, work-rate, tenacity & body-game simply cannot be over-stated. He was just that good, &, in truth, so is Pacquiao. I just get the feeling, with each of these guys being fairly hittable, the harder man --- who has his own expansive arsenal --- prevails.

If Pac can somehow stay away from Chavez's attack, it would be something similar to SSM v Margarito. Margarito's chin seemed to be like unbreakable granite and I never thought Shane could win by KO before the fight. However, these great chins can always be cracked if they get smacked by hard shots time and time again. After all, they are just human beings. There is no chin that won't break after getting hit hard repeatedly.

The question would be if Pac can outbox Chavez, avoiding any meaningful attack. With the speed of Manny, I can see him doing just that. On the other hand, I can also see Chavez pressuring Pac enough and even stop him late. Manny's defense is decent, but he is no defensive wizard. It's really difficult one to call. I think it's about 50/50 fight.

I'd give 24 rounds to Chavez, if you handicap Manny for 18.

Yes, he would outbox him easily. After all, if Whitaker could outbox Chavez, Pac without a doubt could (since he's obviously a thousand times better at outboxing guys than Whitaker).

Yikes. Even for you, that was just embarrassing.

I think he's being sarcastic...isn't he? I don't think he really meant to say Pacquiao would easily outbox Chavez.

First off, I think it's an awesome fight, particularly at 35 or 40. It's, in MM terms, a probable mega trilogy.

Now, I think he was pretty close to the same for Whitaker and Randall as he'd ever been. They gave him style trouble just like everyone who countered him or got to him first consistently did.

Pacquaio couldn't sit in the pocket and beat Chavez like Pernell did but his foot speed and movement is such an asset in this fight, he's always on his toes, and is just such so much quicker in and out than Chavez was and then you have his freakish hand speed. I just think he's a bit of a rarity in how much he's improved while he's been elite, the off balance Pacquaio that was in love with his left hand at the almost complete expense of his right doesn't beat Chavez. The Pacquaio of his later run at 130 and through 140 does beat him though. By decision, Manny lands the flashier stuff, uses effective movement and hangs on through the rough spots.

It was just another poor attempt at humor.

Pac would never flatten Chavez, let alone outbox him.

Yep.

You'll see 4thafans following me around here & there and nipping at my ankles like a spurned woman. You'll have to excuse him, he's been badly hurt in the butt.

please remember and accept that you are only here for amusement purposes.

I look forward to your next clever rebuttal. it's all about the google

Sorry to burst your bubble princess, but I'm not just here for the purpose of amusement. If I were, I wouldn't bother reading anyone's posts but yours.

In spite of the fact that I'm a big brown guy, I keep getting the feeling that you're confusing me for Manny Pac. You can't seem to get off my nuts.

Here, let me write your next reply for you:

"that was OHSO CLEVER lol, you fail at humor " (with perhaps yet another repetition of the google comment)

*holds out a hoop for 4thafans and waits*

big brown angry fella who doesn't think he's dumb