This has been done before but I havent seen it for awhile.

????

I have Louis getting clubbed to the ground in the 2nd round then getting up and stretching Foreman going in for the finish.

Joe by KO in a thrilla.

Foreman kills him, it wouldn't even be competitive.

Louis cant hurt Foreman? He wont find him? Why not competitive?

Big size difference but George is on record saying he thought Jerry Quarry had a style to give him fits (I know, I know).

Point is, I think George respected the smaller, fast handed and hard-hitting guys more than we think. Joe may have crashed his boards a few times by his own admission.

Louis could hurt him and I suppose if Foreman just stood there with his hands down he'd lose. I'd take his combination of size, power, toughness and strength to steamroll over Joe. If Louis could move better on his feet and maybe stick the jab would be one thing but he doesn't fight like that. It's just a bad style matchup for him. I will note that I also think Sonny Liston beats him but not as badly as Foreman would.

Fair enough. I think Foreman could certainly KO anyone he can hit right.


With that said I think he would be a fairly easy target for Louis`s counters. His head was straight up in the air with little movment. Joe had quicker and hands and was sharper.

When a guy ran from Joe he was a plodder moving forward but he showed in some of his fights against bigger men that came to him that he could use some footwork backing up. The Max Baer fight is one that I can remember him using suprising footwork.

"...Joe had quicker and hands and was sharper..." - ETM

Why I favour him (not by much, mind) in an electric battle. Louis showed very good recuperative abilities in his day, though he would obviously facing a combination of size, hitting power & finishing prowess like none before. Louis gives up a little reach & a bit of height --- this is going to make life difficult.

The 'Bomber does, however, hold an immeasurable advantage in precision-punching, combinations, & handspeed. They're both going to land, & each would be capable of absorbing only a limited amount of the others full offense.

I like the quicker-handed, similarly-hard hitting fighter, who makes far fewer errors in his approach to prevail. He also had the better corner, for mine --- Blackburn would've prepped him excellently. It's absolutely a hairy fight for both men. I'm not surprised it's another no-brainer for PE. His eggs may be pickled, but I fancy his brain is fried.

Pretty big step up from anything Joe Louis faced. Being a sharper puncher doesn't do much for you when you are getting muscled and pummeled. You are an idiot.

I think Louis was the #1 Heavyweight in history & I agree with pickled. George breaks his face early.

Never been that high on Louis except as a figure for rallying behind. Great man, not that great a heavyweight for mm.


Foreman flattens him.

Louis KO7 Foreman

I like the Bombers style in this one. He beats George to the punch every time. He wouldn't have to move with his legs as much because he would slip and counter the crap out of Foreman. George would try to push him off or throw those wide shots, but Joe wasn't a mauling type heavy like Frazier or something. He's too slow and punches too wide and Louis just beats him in the gaps.

The only reason this goes past 5 rounds is because of Foremans size and strength to hold and muscle Joe.

As much as I love Joe`s life story, I think he gets way too much credit. He had the most tomatoe cans for defenses out of any great HW. He was technically bettter than George, but Forman would punch straight thru Joe. This fight would not go 5 rounds and it would be in George`s favor.

I think Louis would have torn Foreman up. Too wide open and Louis would have just combo'd him to death. I sort of agree with Pick in that Foreman was a step up from most (not all) of what Louis faced, but Louis is better than just about everyone Foreman actually beat in either career. Both guys have a ton of cans on their record.

Depends if you expect the (enormous) gulf in punching proficiency to be a determining factor in the fight.

I suspect it would, but Foreman wouldn't die wondering, & would have his chances, for sure. Just a feeling Louis is going to make Foreman pay for his errors, & how...

By a quick count, it looks like 4-4 in predictions. Nice to have a close one.

Joe is the best heavyweight Champ of all time. But George stretches him out.

I think Joe Louis just might be the most vulnerable legendary All Time Great.

P4P he gets my vote for the biggest hitter ever, but could he stand up to one of Foreman's hooks?

Hard to see an edge for either man. Short, explosive finishes every time from where I sit.


edit- For the record, I'd take Frazier over Louis head-to-head. He'd have him on his heels (which is huge) and Bomber had issues with hookers who came from down low.

Thats how I would see it playing out as well. Louis would have an 80% connect rate with somebody walking in with their head straight up in the air. Foreman would certainly land too but I dont think he gets the clean shot that the Bomber would.

Foreman would destroy him. Like Pickled pointed out, Louis wasn't fleet of foot by any means, and the size/strength/power differential would be too great for him to overcome any other way.

Unless he beats his man to the punch with shots which are literally infinitely quicker, shorter, & more accurate, right?

Could happen, don't you think...?

You assume he really gets much of an opportunity to get his shots off. What is George doing while this is happening? Nobody doubts that Louis was the sharper, more skilled puncher. He just wasn't enough to best this man.

People forget that Joe Louis had one of the greatest jabs in Heavyweight history. It's not like he's a foot shorter than George- only about an inch or two, max.

The difference in quickness, timing and accuracy would be evident from go. Joe doesn't need to run because he controls the bigger man with the jab and counters George's wide shots when he slips them. While it's not out of line to thing that a man like George Foreman could get some licks in and maybe even a kd if he's lucky, in the end the great Joe Louis beats the crap out of him. It's not even close, IMO.

Good one

You said the same thing, in reverse. They are both all-timers, & each had the power & finishing ability to KO the other.

His is stupid, yours is gospel. Right? Good one, indeed.

Stupid ? No. Frazier had the power to ko Foreman, doesn't mean he'd have done it in 10 tries.

Joe Louis had a different set of tools than Frazier though.

Sure though there is nothing that Louis did that Frazier wouldn't have against the same opposition. Having the power to hurt Foreman and beating him are two different things. The suggestion that George would be some slow oaf and wouldn't be all over Louis is interesting, though very unlikely.

IYO what advantages does Louis bring into a fight with Foreman?

Who IYO did George beat that Joe couldnt?

Well really it's about weighing strengths and weaknesses of both fighters. There is no denying that Louis was impressive in terms of punching technique, combination punches and particularly in the mid to inside range.

Foreman is just a different animal though. He's tougher, hits harder, does not need to hit him cleanly at all, is considerably stronger, has weight on him, has a sizable reach advantage and stylistically there is nothing that Louis does that is really going to throw him off of his game. He may hit him and hurt him to some extent but he's not going to take Foreman out. Where as, what Foreman does really affects the way Louis likes to fight. Louis was not hard to find and when it comes down to it George just wouldn't let him get off. He'd hurt him too quickly and he'd move him around where he wanted him. Louis just didn't have the footwork to avoid it. Foreman covered ground much better than Louis did.

It's not even necessarily about whether or not Louis could have beaten Foreman's opponents, it's the fact that the test they'd provide would be unlike anything he faced. His opposition was ridiculed in his day and there is no question that heavyweights improved even since then. In a way Louis was fortunate to be fighting when he did because the difference in skillset between himself and a lot of the heavyweights was particularly pronounced. It's not just because he was such a bad ass either, the quality of a lot of the heavyweights at the time was lacking. Louis like Dempsey, was ahead of his time. The segregation of boxing at the time also weakened the heavyweight division. Sure he fought Charles late, Walcott also but there is no doubt IMV that heavyweight boxing would have been better if blacks were given a fair shake.

Good post. Your right.

George was not a slow oaf, but he wasn't as quick as Louis and did like to wind up and throw wide. In this case, it's not about Joe having running legs like Ali or Holmes. This is about Joe being able to slip and counter those wide shots.

Frazier and Louis are different animals. They have punching power in common and not much else. Louis was a couple inches taller than Frazier, had better speed, accuracy, timing and could wreck a man with either hand.

George's occasional (if not damn-near constant) lack of solid defense got him hit quite a bit, even in his prime. Really it's surprising to me that he's as "together" as he is, because he was in a couple fights where he got absolutely pummeled.

And at the end of the day, Joe in his prime probably would've found a home for his hook a couple of times, and with Frazier that's all it took. Lyle could have George waddling around the ring looking drunk, but Frazier couldn't? Lyle wasn't a feather-fisted guy, but the best fighters he stopped were Blin, Shavers and maybe Mathis.

I'd give Foreman a good shot at mowing down Joe if he came at him all froggy like the first fight from the very beginning, but I'd also give Joe a much better shot at surviving that assault and cracking him with a few hooks.

Frazier TKO6.

What of Louis against Foreman, Integrital?

I'm an idiot. I read the thread title wrong.

(EDIT)

I'd probably have to think about that one for a little bit, to be honest.

Thank you for this. My grammar fail in another thread doesn't feel so bad.

I'm not so sure Louis had the chin or size to compete with Foreman's punching power and strength. IMO Louis would have to fight a pretty disciplined fight in order to either stay inside of George's reach at a mid-range or be completely outside waiting for some countering opportunities.

It's a bit of a cop-out, but I'd say that if Louis is able to get combinations off from that range, he wins and maybe even TKO's George somewhere around 10 or 11. But he could be hit with that semi-looping right hand, and I think a few Foreman bombs would have him out on his feet, if not out completely. And if Louis tried to go inside (which he sometimes did against bigger guys), I think he'd get leaned on, pushed around and worn out.

It's a good stylistic matchup though.

Foreman KO in about 9.

You didn't have to be huge to compete with Foreman in either incarnation. Being first usually did the trick. Norton couldn't get off and was clueless going backwards. Frazier just marched into range. Louis struggled with counter punchers and the young Foreman was not adept at the trick. He might hurt Louis, but he's not going to steamroll him which means, as he winds, Louis is landing. Louis was patient and Foreman played to his strengths.

IMO a big strike against Louis in this matchup would be a lack of good footwork, and slow feet. On top of that, he wasn't afraid of coming forward and getting hit, which plays into George's strengths just as much.

Sound thinking, Crold. No one should be under the illusion Louis' power couldn't devastate Foreman, either. Each man can KO the other.

Yes, but if both come forward, then the man who lands first is at an advantage. That's Louis. Louis's footwork was better than most give credit for and usually got in trouble by getting lazy on the jab and being countered with sharp rights. Foreman came wide and would have left gaps for the best power punching combo puncher in history.

That's essentially my reasoning. Edge to the faster-handed, shorter, more precise puncher, with the better combinations & superior delivery system.

I'd never rule Foreman out in this one, though.

But countering Joe wasn't the only way to catch him clean and/or beat him. In Schmeling's autobiography, he even said that it wasn't just the right hand over the jab that he saw coming into the fight, but that you can punch with Joe and avoid shots if you move your head a bit. I guess then the issue would be whether or not Foreman's chin could take it, because that type of head movement wasn't there.

In any event, it's a pretty interesting style matchup that I would have loved to see.

As if Joe was fighting guys similar to a young Foreman... Foreman's reach advantage here wouldn't hurt either.

His far slower & wider punches, on the other hand, would.

George's technique was better than 97.5 % of Louis opponents, it really wouldn't. Far slower is funny.

I'm sure it is to you.

Damn. This is a good one. Two guys standing in front of the absolute last people they should be standing in front of, one was bigger, stronger, probably had the better chin and jab the other guy had quicker hands, tighter shots and threw combinations. Both were plodders and were at their best when their opponents came right at them.

I have no fucking idea. I think Louis gets there first but maybe Foreman's chin can handle it. If Joe hurts Foreman like Lyle hurt him it is OVER. I see Foreman either bludgeoning Louis who can't deal with his power and his strength or Louis straight knocking him the fuck out.

K X P

Pretty good & fair summation, but, just to be clear, are you saying Foreman's jab was better? If so, I would dispute that.

Um, no way did George Foreman have a better jab than Joe Louis. At least, I assume we're talking about THE legendary champion Joe Louis here and not some guy from Witchita by the same name or something.

You've mistaken technique for overall ability. It's no sweat --- I've come to expect such things from you, Scrambled.

Well....They both had powerjabs. The difference is that Joe Louis used his to the fullest while Foreman in his young years often disdained the jab.

Also Joe could hook off his jab and George never could. Louis combinations flowed from his leftlead.