On September 11th this year, Jay-Z was doing an interview before his memorial/fund-raising concert. Jay was asked about all the controversy over the "N-word" and how some folks have called for its ban and discontinued use. Jay replied with the usual response that is always claimed, one that I have even said before, about how we took ownership of the word and flipped it into a term of endearment. Wrong!
That explanation accounts for probably less than 1% of "N-word" use, especially in rap where he referenced the hook to one of his tracks, "jiggaaaa, my niggaaaaa." Jay-Z, along with most of rap use the "N-word" to address their foes, haters, and competition. I could be wrong, but given that the rap industry is dominated by young black males, I am pretty sure he is talking about them. Even if the reference is meant to address all races, it still isn't being used as a term of endearment.
Times have changed, when I was in school no one except black folk, black-mixed folk and Puerto Ricans (no idea why) were allowed to say it. All others were punished through violence. Not saying it is right but it is fact. The worldwide popularity of rap and chappelle show (in my opinion) have led to an increase in the use by all races. This has taken some sting off the word as it has become pop-culture rather than a word of racial division. I have not fully come to grips with this reality and living here in North Carolina, I have heard it still used as a term of pure racist hatred. I don't run in big circles, but I have not heard one other racial epithet be so widely used by the people it was first used against or become so easily accepted as a part of pop culture.
Like most humans, I feel anyone who has not come to the same conclusion I have is either uninformed or not as smart as I am. I am fighting against that and I am willing to accept that many people who are well versed in its origin and the history of the struggle that accompanied that word still find it acceptable to use. I do not wish to point fingers and condemn anyone who still uses it, I just ask that we keep it real.
It is not a term of endearment. Even with an -a instead of -er as the ending it is used to refer to black people, especially young black men. The only difference, in too many cases, between what Michael Richards said and what (insert rapper here) said is the color of the speaker's skin.
There is plenty more on the topic but my wife and kids have destroyed my train of thought (several times) so I will end it here in hopes of it all becoming clearer in an intelligent and civil discussion, assuming anyone gives a shiza.
Full Version: Don't call me ni**a!
Well when I first heard the term I've heard it in the historical context. And even now, as someone who listens to a lot of rap, I still look at it like that and have never used it and prefer anybody else not to use it either. I'm very sensitive about stuff like that anyways, maybe that has to do with the historical awareness that comes with being a German.
I was shocked when I first saw some freestyle vids on youtube where white dudes would use that word and nobody would mind, I thought they'd get stomped right then and there. I know quite a few black guys who were born here, because I go to rap shows play football and all of that, but I've never heard them use it.
I was shocked when I first saw some freestyle vids on youtube where white dudes would use that word and nobody would mind, I thought they'd get stomped right then and there. I know quite a few black guys who were born here, because I go to rap shows play football and all of that, but I've never heard them use it.
QUOTE(Kellam @ Oct 10 2009, 03:25 PM) 
On September 11th this year, Jay-Z was doing an interview before his memorial/fund-raising concert. Jay was asked about all the controversy over the "N-word" and how some folks have called for its ban and discontinued use. Jay replied with the usual response that is always claimed, one that I have even said before, about how we took ownership of the word and flipped it into a term of endearment. Wrong!
That explanation accounts for probably less than 1% of "N-word" use, especially in rap where he referenced the hook to one of his tracks, "jiggaaaa, my niggaaaaa." Jay-Z, along with most of rap use the "N-word" to address their foes, haters, and competition. I could be wrong, but given that the rap industry is dominated by young black males, I am pretty sure he is talking about them. Even if the reference is meant to address all races, it still isn't being used as a term of endearment.
Times have changed, when I was in school no one except black folk, black-mixed folk and Puerto Ricans (no idea why) were allowed to say it. All others were punished through violence. Not saying it is right but it is fact. The worldwide popularity of rap and chappelle show (in my opinion) have led to an increase in the use by all races. This has taken some sting off the word as it has become pop-culture rather than a word of racial division. I have not fully come to grips with this reality and living here in North Carolina, I have heard it still used as a term of pure racist hatred. I don't run in big circles, but I have not heard one other racial epithet be so widely used by the people it was first used against or become so easily accepted as a part of pop culture.
Like most humans, I feel anyone who has not come to the same conclusion I have is either uninformed or not as smart as I am. I am fighting against that and I am willing to accept that many people who are well versed in its origin and the history of the struggle that accompanied that word still find it acceptable to use. I do not wish to point fingers and condemn anyone who still uses it, I just ask that we keep it real.
It is not a term of endearment. Even with an -a instead of -er as the ending it is used to refer to black people, especially young black men. The only difference, in too many cases, between what Michael Richards said and what (insert rapper here) said is the color of the speaker's skin.
There is plenty more on the topic but my wife and kids have destroyed my train of thought (several times) so I will end it here in hopes of it all becoming clearer in an intelligent and civil discussion, assuming anyone gives a shiza.
It's not an industry (rap) dominated by black people. We don't do any distribution, or have the stores or Itune profit centers. We are not Clear Channel. We are not Viacom. WE ARE NOT HIP HOP. We are a tool of it now a days.
Like boxing, hip hop artists get hit in the mouth while the promoters make the cash.
The word nigger/nigga was never "our" word. It was something we took but even with that, it was never OWNED by us. Now it has become a crutch of a word on us. It's like dipshit blonde chicks going "well like" or lazy conversationalist saying "anyway."
Non black should never be allowed to use the word but we have gotten lazy in our due diligence.
When Joel Ortiz can use it like he's black, we gave up the word. Eminem got crucified for using it.
Personally I don't think the word should be banned. We need to learn other words. We need to stop leaning on the easy shit. Learn a bigger vocab and that word will have meaning when needed rather than no meaning due to overuse.
the "N" word's absolutely disgusting...
bother's me whenever I hear ANYONE use it !
however I still get kick out of using the term "spear chucker" whenever I can (which is'nt often).
bother's me whenever I hear ANYONE use it !
however I still get kick out of using the term "spear chucker" whenever I can (which is'nt often).
QUOTE(Kellam @ Oct 10 2009, 08:25 PM)
On September 11th this year, Jay-Z was doing an interview before his memorial/fund-raising concert. Jay was asked about all the controversy over the "N-word" and how some folks have called for its ban and discontinued use. Jay replied with the usual response that is always claimed, one that I have even said before, about how we took ownership of the word and flipped it into a term of endearment. Wrong!
That explanation accounts for probably less than 1% of "N-word" use, especially in rap where he referenced the hook to one of his tracks, "jiggaaaa, my niggaaaaa." Jay-Z, along with most of rap use the "N-word" to address their foes, haters, and competition. I could be wrong, but given that the rap industry is dominated by young black males, I am pretty sure he is talking about them. Even if the reference is meant to address all races, it still isn't being used as a term of endearment.
Times have changed, when I was in school no one except black folk, black-mixed folk and Puerto Ricans (no idea why) were allowed to say it. All others were punished through violence. Not saying it is right but it is fact. The worldwide popularity of rap and chappelle show (in my opinion) have led to an increase in the use by all races. This has taken some sting off the word as it has become pop-culture rather than a word of racial division. I have not fully come to grips with this reality and living here in North Carolina, I have heard it still used as a term of pure racist hatred. I don't run in big circles, but I have not heard one other racial epithet be so widely used by the people it was first used against or become so easily accepted as a part of pop culture.
Like most humans, I feel anyone who has not come to the same conclusion I have is either uninformed or not as smart as I am. I am fighting against that and I am willing to accept that many people who are well versed in its origin and the history of the struggle that accompanied that word still find it acceptable to use. I do not wish to point fingers and condemn anyone who still uses it, I just ask that we keep it real.
It is not a term of endearment. Even with an -a instead of -er as the ending it is used to refer to black people, especially young black men. The only difference, in too many cases, between what Michael Richards said and what (insert rapper here) said is the color of the speaker's skin.
There is plenty more on the topic but my wife and kids have destroyed my train of thought (several times) so I will end it here in hopes of it all becoming clearer in an intelligent and civil discussion, assuming anyone gives a shiza.
When I was growing up, some of the folks in my own family (grandparents, even my parents sometimes) would say something like, "Oh! I got that corn from Mr. Hendrix... you know, the nice ol' nigger man down the road from our house. He's so nice, he brings us veggies from his garden every year and brings over hog meat each Fall when he slaughters his sow."
My parents are great folks. I'll spare you the obligatory examples of how they have bent over backwards to help ANYBODY they come in contact with, especially black folks. But even back then, I could sense that their choice of words still conveyed a sense of separation between white and black. Like, he's a man, but he's not quite one of us.
If you're simply trying to describe somebody, why not say "the ol' black man" instead of "ol' nigger man?"
And also, I noticed that when a white person did something fucked up, my parents would consider the many factors which contributed to the white person's mistake. If it were a black person who fucked up, then had a tendency to simply chalk it up to the fact that they were black. They did what they did beacuse they are black.
Wow, my parents don't sound like very good people at all...
Cant stand the word personally, and get pissed off when I hear anyone using it.
Hopkins:
The **** Mentality
So when you got a Floyd Mayweather telling everyone he’s a silverback gorilla? Doesn’t he know the significance in white folks using that name? See **** is not the only name that was used. **** to me means ignorant, and I still don’t use it because to me it didn’t mean a color even though it was used like that.
But when I see high-profile athletes who have the power to guide young fighters watching, who feel they need the Bentleys and to throw money, it’s what I have to deal with to show I’m not ignorant. And that’s whether I’m with Ross Greenburg [HBO] or other business, I’m no silverback gorilla. To some that’s funny. Some think its good TV. But my mom always said there’s people that laugh with you, and those that laugh at you. My opinion? They laughing at you, dog.
A silverback gorilla is a powerful animal. You’re a n***a with money. And you’re crazy, but a silverback is dominant. So when you say silverback gorilla piss, dog you think that’s kosher? But it is that mentality. Floyd just don’t know his history. He’s blinded by the business thinking that makes you a man. My 17,000 square foot, 6 acre house in Delaware doesn’t make me. That’s not my God. I’m glad to have it, yes. But I don’t worship my cars, watch, clothes, or anything. When you get caught up in that it’s very hard to reprogram it back.
http://allhiphop.com/stories/lifestylespor...8/21967589.aspx
The **** Mentality
So when you got a Floyd Mayweather telling everyone he’s a silverback gorilla? Doesn’t he know the significance in white folks using that name? See **** is not the only name that was used. **** to me means ignorant, and I still don’t use it because to me it didn’t mean a color even though it was used like that.
But when I see high-profile athletes who have the power to guide young fighters watching, who feel they need the Bentleys and to throw money, it’s what I have to deal with to show I’m not ignorant. And that’s whether I’m with Ross Greenburg [HBO] or other business, I’m no silverback gorilla. To some that’s funny. Some think its good TV. But my mom always said there’s people that laugh with you, and those that laugh at you. My opinion? They laughing at you, dog.
A silverback gorilla is a powerful animal. You’re a n***a with money. And you’re crazy, but a silverback is dominant. So when you say silverback gorilla piss, dog you think that’s kosher? But it is that mentality. Floyd just don’t know his history. He’s blinded by the business thinking that makes you a man. My 17,000 square foot, 6 acre house in Delaware doesn’t make me. That’s not my God. I’m glad to have it, yes. But I don’t worship my cars, watch, clothes, or anything. When you get caught up in that it’s very hard to reprogram it back.
http://allhiphop.com/stories/lifestylespor...8/21967589.aspx
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 06:48 PM)
It's not an industry (rap) dominated by black people. We don't do any distribution, or have the stores or Itune profit centers. We are not Clear Channel. We are not Viacom. WE ARE NOT HIP HOP. We are a tool of it now a days.
Like boxing, hip hop artists get hit in the mouth while the promoters make the cash.
The word nigger/nigga was never "our" word. It was something we took but even with that, it was never OWNED by us. Now it has become a crutch of a word on us. It's like dipshit blonde chicks going "well like" or lazy conversationalist saying "anyway."
Non black should never be allowed to use the word but we have gotten lazy in our due diligence.
When Joel Ortiz can use it like he's black, we gave up the word. Eminem got crucified for using it.
Personally I don't think the word should be banned. We need to learn other words. We need to stop leaning on the easy shit. Learn a bigger vocab and that word will have meaning when needed rather than no meaning due to overuse.
Dominated by young black men in the sense of that is who is rapping. I know they don't own it but they own their vocabulary choices and that is what people hear.
I can understand limitations on who can say something. Siblings, family, and friends will call each other names but let an outsider do so and there will be problems. The main thing is though, those names often are in jest and should have no real basis. I feel like an asshole for how I used to pick on my sisters and probably gave them complexes about certain physical features they have. I don't find the use of the n-word to be consistent with the way some names are used exclusively among friends.
My personal evolution from when I used the term every other word until now has been a major change in mood and how I want to present myself. For me, it was more of a mindset than a word. I believe there are social and psychological effects much the same as if you continually call a child ugly or dumb.
I don't use the word anymore because I don't feel the urge to. A telling situation for me was when a dude attempted to rob me at gunpoint. When I called my boy to tell him, I had an overwhelming urge to refer to the young man as a "nigga." I didn't know what that meant about me, but I didn't like it and it prompted real reflection on the whole thing. At that point I hadn't said it in 2 years but it came back strong that day and it seemed so natural. Ironically, when I first started driving a cab, this older black woman told me to stay from around west Greenville and, "don't be picking up them niggas." I knew she wasn't talking about any white folks.
And that really is a lot of my point, we don't use it any differently than how it is was negatively used against us. Even then, how negative was it way back when, it was more to denote black people, any and all black people. Now, we have dissected black folks into groups and we mark the "niggas" as the less desirable. I believe Chris Rock had a comedy sketch on the differences between black folk and "niggas."
I fully agree with your entire paragraph about banning it.
i have used it for the first time recently in a song for a hook, but i use it for purpose and i'm speaking the truth.
QUOTE(Smelodies @ Oct 10 2009, 04:31 PM)
Hopkins:
The **** Mentality
So when you got a Floyd Mayweather telling everyone he’s a silverback gorilla? Doesn’t he know the significance in white folks using that name? See **** is not the only name that was used. **** to me means ignorant, and I still don’t use it because to me it didn’t mean a color even though it was used like that.
But when I see high-profile athletes who have the power to guide young fighters watching, who feel they need the Bentleys and to throw money, it’s what I have to deal with to show I’m not ignorant. And that’s whether I’m with Ross Greenburg [HBO] or other business, I’m no silverback gorilla. To some that’s funny. Some think its good TV. But my mom always said there’s people that laugh with you, and those that laugh at you. My opinion? They laughing at you, dog.
A silverback gorilla is a powerful animal. You’re a n***a with money. And you’re crazy, but a silverback is dominant. So when you say silverback gorilla piss, dog you think that’s kosher? But it is that mentality. Floyd just don’t know his history. He’s blinded by the business thinking that makes you a man. My 17,000 square foot, 6 acre house in Delaware doesn’t make me. That’s not my God. I’m glad to have it, yes. But I don’t worship my cars, watch, clothes, or anything. When you get caught up in that it’s very hard to reprogram it back.
http://allhiphop.com/stories/lifestylespor...8/21967589.aspx
Floyd is not intelligent and comes from a family of Niggas (yeah, I'm using the word). Bernard, like him or hate him, he's intelligent. We as black people have the choice. Be black or be Floyd.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 07:35 PM)
Floyd is not intelligent and comes from a family of Niggas (yeah, I'm using the word). Bernard, like him or hate him, he's intelligent. We as black people have the choice. Be black or be Floyd.
You wrong for that, but I lol'd.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 05:35 PM)
Floyd is not intelligent and comes from a family of Niggas (yeah, I'm using the word). Bernard, like him or hate him, he's intelligent. We as black people have the choice. Be black or be Floyd.
I was wondering when the "silverback gorilla" would be addressed. I came into work that Monday and a Latin friend of mine didn't see the 24/7 and asked how Floyd responded to Marquez drinking piss. Because we all wondered the Friday before how they would handle it, assuming it would be funny. And as I answered him, it really hit me for the first time how unseemly it was.
QUOTE(Smelodies @ Oct 10 2009, 04:39 PM)
I was wondering when the "silverback gorilla" would be addressed. I came into work that Monday and a Latin friend of mine didn't see the 24/7 and asked how Floyd responded to Marquez drinking piss. Because we all wondered the Friday before how they would handle it, assuming it would be funny. And as I answered him, it really hit me for the first time how unseemly it was.
It was typical Floyd ignorance but because it's Floyd, I understand. He can be clean shaven, good looking, speak semi-well and still be dumb and ghetto as a hooker on Figueroa and Gage street.
I hate Chris Rock. Loathe him but one thing he was right about. There are nigga's and black people. Just like there are white folks and white trash. Mexicans and beaners. Africans and credit card fraud dickheads from the west (ok, that's too much)...
BTW, if TFK was still here, boy this thread would be ugly.
Having trouble recalling who TFK is, can you help?
QUOTE(Kellam @ Oct 10 2009, 04:57 PM)
Having trouble recalling who TFK is, can you help?
He was our resident racist a few years ago until I drop kicked him back to boxingtime where dickheads go to die (there are really cool cats there but somehow the banned dickfarmers go there for a new home).
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 08:01 PM)
He was our resident racist a few years ago until I drop kicked him back to boxingtime where dickheads go to die (there are really cool cats there but somehow the banned dickfarmers go there for a new home).
That was his whole name, TFK? I've been here off and on for some years now, but it ain't ringing a bell. Not really important but now my curiosity is going, lol.
QUOTE(Kellam @ Oct 10 2009, 05:04 PM)
That was his whole name, TFK? I've been here off and on for some years now, but it ain't ringing a bell. Not really important but now my curiosity is going, lol.
Shit, I meant fightbeat.
He was a magnet for anything "race." If there was a post in "Max Membership and Issue Forum" and the guy said he was recommended here by a black dude, TFK would get into about that.
He hated all things non white YET he likes boxing (which is most things not white).
I agree that Chris Rock is overrated. Standup comedy in general isn't doing well these days, rewatching the Carlin DVDs a few weeks ago reminded me of that.
QUOTE(boyakasha! @ Oct 10 2009, 03:50 PM)
If you're simply trying to describe somebody, why not say "the ol' black man" instead of "ol' nigger man?"
And also, I noticed that when a white person did something fucked up, my parents would consider the many factors which contributed to the white person's mistake. If it were a black person who fucked up, then had a tendency to simply chalk it up to the fact that they were black. They did what they did beacuse they are black.
Wow, my parents don't sound like very good people at all...
I reckon you take that a step further and just say that ol' man. No real reason to differentiate him because of his skin colour.
On a separate note, not related to the thread title but it involves race, something I noticed is that everyone refers to Barack Obama as a "black president" yet he's just as white as he is black. I understand that in this instance his election seen as a victory of sorts for African-Americans so that's why it's seen as important to refer to his heritage. But personally, I don't think he was elected just because he was "black" I really think it's because he was the best candidate. I don't think skin colour or racial heritage needs to be pointed out.
QUOTE(Big Damage @ Oct 10 2009, 07:23 PM)
I reckon you take that a step further and just say that ol' man. No real reason to differentiate him because of his skin colour.
On a separate note, not related to the thread title but it involves race, something I noticed is that everyone refers to Barack Obama as a "black president" yet he's just as white as he is black. I understand that in this instance his election seen as a victory of sorts for African-Americans so that's why it's seen as important to refer to his heritage. But personally, I don't think he was elected just because he was "black" I really think it's because he was the best candidate. I don't think skin colour or racial heritage needs to be pointed out.
A large part of it goes back to the old racist 1 drop rule. The rule that if you had one drop or more of another race's blood in you that you could not be considered white. Why? Because having that one drop in you is considered a contamination of the purest race.
QUOTE(Big Damage @ Oct 10 2009, 10:23 PM)
I reckon you take that a step further and just say that ol' man. No real reason to differentiate him because of his skin colour.
On a separate note, not related to the thread title but it involves race, something I noticed is that everyone refers to Barack Obama as a "black president" yet he's just as white as he is black. I understand that in this instance his election seen as a victory of sorts for African-Americans so that's why it's seen as important to refer to his heritage. But personally, I don't think he was elected just because he was "black" I really think it's because he was the best candidate. I don't think skin colour or racial heritage needs to be pointed out.
I think there's a tendency to use skin color to help identify a particular person who happens to be a minority simply becase it helps zone in on the person you're referring to. For instance, if there are only 3 black families who live in Crossett, AR, you can quickly convey who you you're referring to when you say "the black family on Pecan Street."
When people ask each other if they know boyakasha, they say, "The bald guy who lives in front of The Baptist Home."
But I get what you're saying.
QUOTE(Big Damage @ Oct 10 2009, 08:23 PM)
I reckon you take that a step further and just say that ol' man. No real reason to differentiate him because of his skin colour.
On a separate note, not related to the thread title but it involves race, something I noticed is that everyone refers to Barack Obama as a "black president" yet he's just as white as he is black. I understand that in this instance his election seen as a victory of sorts for African-Americans so that's why it's seen as important to refer to his heritage. But personally, I don't think he was elected just because he was "black" I really think it's because he was the best candidate. I don't think skin colour or racial heritage needs to be pointed out.
I just laughed it off as a technicality, pops is from Kenya, moms is from Kansas. So, he truly is African-American.
The importance of his skin tone is simply because it had never happened. Everyone bugged out because JFK was catholic. Anytime historical trends are broken it is an issue.
As a non-Black male, I have a huge problem with non-blacks using the word ni**a. However, in my opinion, it's not my place to decide in what way, and how that term is used in the Black Community.
I recently went off on my class of predominantly 25 Hispanic/Mexican National high school students that insist on using that word. I ask them if they understood the historical context of n**ga. If they knew about Jim Crow, segregation, and if they knew the difference between N**ger and N**ga. It was *crickets* None of them knew. Then I asked them how they would feel if a Black man called his Black friends "Spick" or "Beaner," and then they sort of understood.
I agree with Boyakasha in that skin color identification is connected to help identify a particular person who happens to be a minority.
I've been "the big bald white muthafucka" for much of my life.
I recently went off on my class of predominantly 25 Hispanic/Mexican National high school students that insist on using that word. I ask them if they understood the historical context of n**ga. If they knew about Jim Crow, segregation, and if they knew the difference between N**ger and N**ga. It was *crickets* None of them knew. Then I asked them how they would feel if a Black man called his Black friends "Spick" or "Beaner," and then they sort of understood.
I agree with Boyakasha in that skin color identification is connected to help identify a particular person who happens to be a minority.
I've been "the big bald white muthafucka" for much of my life.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 05:35 PM)
Floyd is not intelligent and comes from a family of Niggas (yeah, I'm using the word). Bernard, like him or hate him, he's intelligent. We as black people have the choice. Be black or be Floyd.
Karceno's not particularly impressed by Bernard's intelligence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3RSmyMePVo
QUOTE(Kellam @ Oct 10 2009, 06:25 PM)
On September 11th this year, Jay-Z was doing an interview before his memorial/fund-raising concert. Jay was asked about all the controversy over the "N-word" and how some folks have called for its ban and discontinued use. Jay replied with the usual response that is always claimed, one that I have even said before, about how we took ownership of the word and flipped it into a term of endearment. Wrong!
That explanation accounts for probably less than 1% of "N-word" use, especially in rap where he referenced the hook to one of his tracks, "jiggaaaa, my niggaaaaa." Jay-Z, along with most of rap use the "N-word" to address their foes, haters, and competition. I could be wrong, but given that the rap industry is dominated by young black males, I am pretty sure he is talking about them. Even if the reference is meant to address all races, it still isn't being used as a term of endearment.
Times have changed, when I was in school no one except black folk, black-mixed folk and Puerto Ricans (no idea why) were allowed to say it. All others were punished through violence. Not saying it is right but it is fact. The worldwide popularity of rap and chappelle show (in my opinion) have led to an increase in the use by all races. This has taken some sting off the word as it has become pop-culture rather than a word of racial division. I have not fully come to grips with this reality and living here in North Carolina, I have heard it still used as a term of pure racist hatred. I don't run in big circles, but I have not heard one other racial epithet be so widely used by the people it was first used against or become so easily accepted as a part of pop culture.
Like most humans, I feel anyone who has not come to the same conclusion I have is either uninformed or not as smart as I am. I am fighting against that and I am willing to accept that many people who are well versed in its origin and the history of the struggle that accompanied that word still find it acceptable to use. I do not wish to point fingers and condemn anyone who still uses it, I just ask that we keep it real.
It is not a term of endearment. Even with an -a instead of -er as the ending it is used to refer to black people, especially young black men. The only difference, in too many cases, between what Michael Richards said and what (insert rapper here) said is the color of the speaker's skin.
There is plenty more on the topic but my wife and kids have destroyed my train of thought (several times) so I will end it here in hopes of it all becoming clearer in an intelligent and civil discussion, assuming anyone gives a shiza.
Would you have been mad if I simply replied with a "Ni**a Please"?
It bothers me when black people say that they can use the word and that whites can't. It also bothers me when white people say that because black people use it, they should be able to also.
That shit is so played out, give it a rest.
That shit is so played out, give it a rest.
Just kidding fam.
Can we at least agree that there are certainly some peckerwoods who have earned the right to say it?
I mean, he's made more tooth covers than the guys who make mouthpieces for the NFL.
I mean, he's made more tooth covers than the guys who make mouthpieces for the NFL.
QUOTE(Pickledeggssays @ Oct 10 2009, 09:08 PM)
It bothers me when black people say that they can use the word and that whites can't. It also bothers me when white people say that because black people use it, they should be able to also.
That shit is so played out, give it a rest.
Give what a rest? A word thrown at us? Easy for you to say. You have no history with the word other than hearing it so really, you have as much say as I have on rocket science.
Give it a rest.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 08:46 PM)
Give what a rest? A word thrown at us? Easy for you to say. You have no history with the word other than hearing it so really, you have as much say as I have on rocket science.
Give it a rest.
It's dumb to think that calling another black dude is cool because you are "owning" the word. Seriously? People who repeat that kind of garbage aren't thinking for themselves, they are just falling in line with a bunch of idiots. You think blacks who suffered through the worst of racism in this country would think it was "cool"? Thrown at us? Who are you? Do you speak for blacks or something?
QUOTE(Aficionado @ Oct 11 2009, 12:07 AM)
Would you have been mad if I simply replied with a "Ni**a Please"?
I would have lol'd.
QUOTE(Pickledeggssays @ Oct 10 2009, 10:09 PM)
It's dumb to think that calling another black dude is cool because you are "owning" the word. Seriously? People who repeat that kind of garbage aren't thinking for themselves, they are just falling in line with a bunch of idiots. You think blacks who suffered through the worst of racism in this country would think it was "cool"? Thrown at us? Who are you? Do you speak for blacks or something?
I speak for black "person" You speak for nothing. You know nothing. You have never been called nigger (though sucking all the cock you suck I'm sure I know what you have been called) by non blacks, or supposed "respected" people were are supposed to deal with (Police?).
So whether or not I speak for blacks (plural), I speak on something that your pompus ass knows nothing about...
Cunt.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 10:01 PM)
I speak for black "person" You speak for nothing. You know nothing. You have never been called nigger (though sucking all the cock you suck I'm sure I know what you have been called) by non blacks, or supposed "respected" people were are supposed to deal with (Police?).
So whether or not I speak for blacks (plural), I speak on something that your pompus ass knows nothing about...
Cunt.
Im not going to get too much into the racial issue, you aren't even smart enough to comprehend it anyway. So say what you want, it's quite obvious that you will never know any better.
QUOTE(Pickledeggssays @ Oct 10 2009, 11:12 PM)
Im not going to get too much into the racial issue, you aren't even smart enough to comprehend it anyway. So say what you want, it's quite obvious that you will never know any better.
I'm not smart enough. Great response. You're still a cunt.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 10:15 PM)
I'm not smart enough. Great response. You're still a cunt.
Im surprised that even you don't realize that you aren't very bright.
QUOTE(Pickledeggssays @ Oct 10 2009, 11:24 PM)
Im surprised that even you don't realize that you aren't very bright.
JDKLADJLAKDJ:ADK asd;lg;SFKdso
I mean it's the same post everytime. I'm not bright but I have an imagination. You're smart and limited. Hmmn?
You like cock. I like twat.
I mean one line bullshit insults from YOU are weak. To be able to have a sense of humor or the ability to talk in something OTHER than boxing hows that you are MUCH smarter than me.
I'm sorry if I can't compete with you bitch. I will still continue to talk about your cock wrangling ass in your face though. That's what us "not so bright" cats do unlike stand up guys like you.
Cunt.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 10:28 PM)
JDKLADJLAKDJ:ADK asd;lg;SFKdso
I mean it's the same post everytime. I'm not bright but I have an imagination. You're smart and limited. Hmmn?
You like cock. I like twat.
I mean one line bullshit insults from YOU are weak. To be able to have a sense of humor or the ability to talk in something OTHER than boxing hows that you are MUCH smarter than me.
I'm sorry if I can't compete with you bitch. I will still continue to talk about your cock wrangling ass in your face though. That's what us "not so bright" cats do unlike stand up guys like you.
Cunt.
In my face? This is the internet. Look, im going to end this here. It's not weak to call you unintelligent, it's not even an attempt at a petty insult like you continue to do. It's an accurate explanation as to why I couldn't even begin to take you seriously.
The shit talking you are so proud of doesn't interest me. Have fun.
QUOTE(Pickledeggssays @ Oct 10 2009, 11:37 PM)
In my face? This is the internet. Look, im going to end this here. It's not weak to call you unintelligent, it's not even an attempt at a petty insult like you continue to do. It's an accurate explanation as to why I couldn't even begin to take you seriously.
The shit talking you are so proud of doesn't interest me. Have fun.
Yet you follow me around like a lost Pacmonster.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 10 2009, 11:38 PM)
Yet you follow me around like a lost Pacmonster.
BTW, check the ending of the "talking" for the night as he goes into GD to post that he's done on another thread. What a cunt.
QUOTE(Big Damage @ Oct 10 2009, 05:23 PM)
On a separate note, not related to the thread title but it involves race, something I noticed is that everyone refers to Barack Obama as a "black president" yet he's just as white as he is black. I understand that in this instance his election seen as a victory of sorts for African-Americans so that's why it's seen as important to refer to his heritage. But personally, I don't think he was elected just because he was "black" I really think it's because he was the best candidate. I don't think skin colour or racial heritage needs to be pointed out.
Apologies in advance if I offend anyone with anything I'm about to say.
I certainly wouldn't say Obama got elected because he's black, though in this instance I don't think it hurt him much. He was the best candidate, yeah, but I think it also had a lot to do with Americans generally just being tired of shit slipping for years and nobody doing anything about it. And they felt Barack was the one to bring about change, if anyone could.
As for why he's referred to as a "black president" more often than not, I'd say that looks are basically everything. I'm not 100% white, but because my skin is pale, I have some freckles and whatnot, I'm white. You better believe that if I went to prison, I'd have no choice but to kick it with the idiotic nazi fekkers. You could be 7/8 white, 1/8 black, but if you look outwardly black (even if only a bit), you're probably gonna be treated as such before you're treated white. Most mixed friends I've ever had have identified a bit more with black folks than white folks. And IMO that's because what you look goes a long way in determining how people perceive you and treat you.
As far as this n-word business, I don't have much interest in it either way. Yes, I'm offended by it when it's used to demean anyone. Yes, I've seen and heard many white folks say shit like "Dude, don't be a nigger," and then when called on it they say shit like "What? It means ignorant, go read a dictionary." There are quite a few other fucking words that mean "ignorant" though, so choosing that one in particular must have a reason behind it. Go read a thesaurus.
Bottom line: You can call it meaningless or say "It should just go away," but a word with history like that doesn't go away easily. I find it retarded that quite a few black folks use it so frequently, no matter the context, but I'm not black and I kinda feel like I just don't have any business having a strong opinion on it. I'm not sure I'd feel the need to say it much if I were black though.
QUOTE(Pickledeggssays @ Oct 11 2009, 12:08 AM)
It bothers me when black people say that they can use the word and that whites can't. It also bothers me when white people say that because black people use it, they should be able to also.
That shit is so played out, give it a rest.
I think there are different levels at play here. While I have come to my conclusion on the word over the course of about 20 years, I cannot condemn those that have not. For whatever reason that folks continue to use the word, regardless of how eloquently that purpose is or isn't stated, it isn't dumb. Most thought and reason is hardly original so "not thinking for themselves" qualifies 99% of the time. It really isn't THAT big of an issue.
As far as other races saying it, I don't think they should. I don't agree with black folk saying it but on some level they(we?) at least have the right, no matter how unhealthy I think it is. My question to anyone who wants to say it, black or otherwise (especially otherwise), is why do you want to? The biggest factor in the problem of delineating which race can use it is that there is something that is a "black and white" division. My hope is that at some point we are all just Americans regardless of our skin tone. It may be naive to think that it will ever happen, especially living here in NC, but to keep a word with such divisiveness around will sort of always reinforce the dividing line.
QUOTE(Kellam @ Oct 11 2009, 12:23 PM)
I think there are different levels at play here. While I have come to my conclusion on the word over the course of about 20 years, I cannot condemn those that have not. For whatever reason that folks continue to use the word, regardless of how eloquently that purpose is or isn't stated, it isn't dumb. Most thought and reason is hardly original so "not thinking for themselves" qualifies 99% of the time. It really isn't THAT big of an issue.
As far as other races saying it, I don't think they should. I don't agree with black folk saying it but on some level they(we?) at least have the right, no matter how unhealthy I think it is. My question to anyone who wants to say it, black or otherwise (especially otherwise), is why do you want to? The biggest factor in the problem of delineating which race can use it is that there is something that is a "black and white" division. My hope is that at some point we are all just Americans regardless of our skin tone. It may be naive to think that it will ever happen, especially living here in NC, but to keep a word with such divisiveness around will sort of always reinforce the dividing line.
Anywhere on the planet it's naive. It's not just that word. It's anything that can be used to lower another groups status. Whether it's calling a Jew a kike, a Japanese person a nip or any other demeaning word, people will always use words and language as a starting point.
It is a lazy word. I use it when I'm around some of my old ghetto partners but I don't use it any other time so i admit, it's a crutch.
I don't use it to demean but it is a demeaning word nonetheless.
QUOTE(Integrital @ Oct 11 2009, 03:05 PM)
Apologies in advance if I offend anyone with anything I'm about to say.
I certainly wouldn't say Obama got elected because he's black, though in this instance I don't think it hurt him much. He was the best candidate, yeah, but I think it also had a lot to do with Americans generally just being tired of shit slipping for years and nobody doing anything about it. And they felt Barack was the one to bring about change, if anyone could.
As for why he's referred to as a "black president" more often than not, I'd say that looks are basically everything. I'm not 100% white, but because my skin is pale, I have some freckles and whatnot, I'm white. You better believe that if I went to prison, I'd have no choice but to kick it with the idiotic nazi fekkers. You could be 7/8 white, 1/8 black, but if you look outwardly black (even if only a bit), you're probably gonna be treated as such before you're treated white. Most mixed friends I've ever had have identified a bit more with black folks than white folks. And IMO that's because what you look goes a long way in determining how people perceive you and treat you.
As far as this n-word business, I don't have much interest in it either way. Yes, I'm offended by it when it's used to demean anyone. Yes, I've seen and heard many white folks say shit like "Dude, don't be a nigger," and then when called on it they say shit like "What? It means ignorant, go read a dictionary." There are quite a few other fucking words that mean "ignorant" though, so choosing that one in particular must have a reason behind it. Go read a thesaurus.
Bottom line: You can call it meaningless or say "It should just go away," but a word with history like that doesn't go away easily. I find it retarded that quite a few black folks use it so frequently, no matter the context, but I'm not black and I kinda feel like I just don't have any business having a strong opinion on it. I'm not sure I'd feel the need to say it much if I were black though.
I appreciate the care shown in how you addressed the issue and I found nothing offensive whatsoever. I believe the reason though is not because you held back, although you may have, but because you appeared to make an honest effort to take multiple perspectives into consideration and you presented a well thought out stance.
I wish that every conversation about race, especially from the side of "white" folk, didn't have to be covered with the fear of offense. Truth is, there are a lot of people that just don't put much thought into it, black or white, and so it becomes a stereotypical conversation with uninformed/poorly thought opinions and all parties become offended and unwilling to tackle the issue ever again. Even saying "uninformed/poorly thought" is presumptuous, people have their perspectives and it is often very hard to see things a different way. Once both parties are able to tell how they see it without fear of backlash then some progress will be made, at least conversationally.
I agree with your appearances theory as far as labeling but when it comes to cultural preference, I always thought that mixed folk related more with the race of the father, stereotypically speaking. I have seen very few instances where this was not the case but obviously I have probably seen like .01% of all mixed children in a given area, let alone the whole US.
QUOTE(BANNY THE ANGRY @ Oct 11 2009, 03:34 PM)
Anywhere on the planet it's naive. It's not just that word. It's anything that can be used to lower another groups status. Whether it's calling a Jew a kike, a Japanese person a nip or any other demeaning word, people will always use words and language as a starting point.
It is a lazy word. I use it when I'm around some of my old ghetto partners but I don't use it any other time so i admit, it's a crutch.
I don't use it to demean but it is a demeaning word nonetheless.
No doubt but should we accept it or try to change in hopes of reaching a better state?
I know you don't use it to demean but would you agree that it is more than a word but in fact a mentality? Why do the people you say the word around or the people you call that not expect you to say something different? Different people have different expectations and what are theirs? Some women will let people call them a bitch while others wont, why?
Call someone who thinks they are a nigga something else, like brother, and I would bet money that they feel better about it. I swear it breaks my heart when I hear people call black infants and babies "little niggas". Maybe it's not that serious, I don't know, just saying how I feel given what I know.
Everyone has their hang-ups on race one way or another, and opinions and views, etc., but I personally feel lucky enough to not have been brought up to judge people based on skin color, religion, whatever. Most people aren't as fortunate. Doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else, just lucky.
To more directly address what you're saying about white folks seeming to dance around the issue when it comes to any real discussion on the topic, from their perspective, doing the whole thing where they talk at a normal volume and then whisper the words "black people" is justified. I'm not entirely sure how to go about explaining that through historical references and incidents, or why exactly that is, but I can tell you that a lot of white people fear being labeled a racist by black folks and they fear what the response to that may be.
Is it ACTUALLY justified? I don't know. Do white folks take too many liberties in the way they talk? Or are black folks overly sensitive about this topic? I couldn't tell you.
To more directly address what you're saying about white folks seeming to dance around the issue when it comes to any real discussion on the topic, from their perspective, doing the whole thing where they talk at a normal volume and then whisper the words "black people" is justified. I'm not entirely sure how to go about explaining that through historical references and incidents, or why exactly that is, but I can tell you that a lot of white people fear being labeled a racist by black folks and they fear what the response to that may be.
Is it ACTUALLY justified? I don't know. Do white folks take too many liberties in the way they talk? Or are black folks overly sensitive about this topic? I couldn't tell you.
QUOTE(Integrital @ Oct 11 2009, 06:11 PM)
Everyone has their hang-ups on race one way or another, and opinions and views, etc., but I personally feel lucky enough to not have been brought up to judge people based on skin color, religion, whatever. Most people aren't as fortunate. Doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else, just lucky.
To more directly address what you're saying about white folks seeming to dance around the issue when it comes to any real discussion on the topic, from their perspective, doing the whole thing where they talk at a normal volume and then whisper the words "black people" is justified. I'm not entirely sure how to go about explaining that through historical references and incidents, or why exactly that is, but I can tell you that a lot of white people fear being labeled a racist by black folks and they fear what the response to that may be.
Is it ACTUALLY justified? I don't know. Do white folks take too many liberties in the way they talk? Or are black folks overly sensitive about this topic? I couldn't tell you.
I'm not sure you meant it this way, but I didn't intend to portray that I hate how white people talk about race. I fully understand their apprehension about discussing the issue. I have witnessed many a conversation go haywire and I believe that the behavior of "dancing around the issue" is fully justified. My wish is that they were not put into a position of withdrawal via the reactions they get for voicing opinions.
While some people certainly have offensive stances, it is not a requirement to convey the feeling of being offended by forcing someone to never share their opinion again. For honest problem-solving, exploration, or conversation, one cannot so heavily influence participants by any means. The lack of a common ground, a common perspective on which to have these discussions makes for volatile relations anytime the utmost care and consideration is not given to those involved.
I think your last stanza points to two reasons that heavily factor into why America does not talk about race except on a very small, relatively unimportant scale.
I work with mainly colored folk. I find that calling them colored folk makes them laugh.
About white folks being reluctant to express themselves and "skrting the issue" in conversation...
I spend the majority (or at least half, I'd say) of my time with black folks both at work, and in my free time. Most of the guys I run around with are black, and I work with families of juveniles who have behavioral/legal/academic problems (of 56 kids on my caseload, 37 are black or hispanic). I can attest to the fact that your overall behavior and actions are the most effective way to demonstrate that you are a decent person and non-judgemental based on race.
We've all had our slips... something comes out all wrong, we fumble our words, say something that was meant to be a joke but goes over the wrong way, etc. But if you've proven yourself to those around you by your actions, you don't have to be so reluctant to engage in conversations about racial issues. If something is misinterpreted or comes out all wrong, you're usually given the opportunity to clear things up before somebody goes berzerk and labels you a racist.
When discussing race, the most important thing (and probably most difficult thing) is to make an effort to remove emotionality from the conversation and approach the topic with an open mind and level head. I think I'm really good at doing that, but some folks are not. If I were black, it would be more difficult to remove emotions from such a topic, and I think it says something that I realize that.
I spend the majority (or at least half, I'd say) of my time with black folks both at work, and in my free time. Most of the guys I run around with are black, and I work with families of juveniles who have behavioral/legal/academic problems (of 56 kids on my caseload, 37 are black or hispanic). I can attest to the fact that your overall behavior and actions are the most effective way to demonstrate that you are a decent person and non-judgemental based on race.
We've all had our slips... something comes out all wrong, we fumble our words, say something that was meant to be a joke but goes over the wrong way, etc. But if you've proven yourself to those around you by your actions, you don't have to be so reluctant to engage in conversations about racial issues. If something is misinterpreted or comes out all wrong, you're usually given the opportunity to clear things up before somebody goes berzerk and labels you a racist.
When discussing race, the most important thing (and probably most difficult thing) is to make an effort to remove emotionality from the conversation and approach the topic with an open mind and level head. I think I'm really good at doing that, but some folks are not. If I were black, it would be more difficult to remove emotions from such a topic, and I think it says something that I realize that.
I feel like i should add once more that Colored folk is a hilarious term.
QUOTE(DangerDong @ Oct 11 2009, 06:29 PM)
I feel like i should add once more that Colored folk is a hilarious term.
You dork.
QUOTE(DangerDong @ Oct 11 2009, 06:29 PM)
I feel like i should add once more that Colored folk is a hilarious term.
it pales in comparison to "spear chucker" though !
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