Two of GOATs. What more to say?

I mentioned in an earlier thread how Pacquiao, in facing Duran at 135lbs, would be a great man up against a greater man, who was also bigger (not to mention, much more established at the weight).

Much the same here, but the tables are turned. Robinson was bigger & better. He was also more versatile &, if it came to it, not afraid to get his hands dirty. You can wrestle with Gene Fullmer at Middleweight in the twilight of your career, you can do likewise with Duran two divisions south when you're in your pomp. That's if Robinson has to. My guess is he doesn't.

Robinson KO12. Duran's down once in the tenth, & twice more for the count in round twelve.

Robinson UD 10-5. Too big, too strong, too fast, and just too good. I don't see Duran getting stopped, though.

Robinson by decision. 10-5 or 9-6 sounds about right.

The height, reach, legs, speed and power should be enough to keep Duran off most of the time.

If Roberto can't hurt the other guy I think his chances go down significantly. Lucky for him, he had the power to hurt pretty much anyone. Not Ray though.

Doubtful you'll find anyone familiar with Robinson who'll actually favour Duran, but what do you fellas think about Duran's chances to actually win? What are the odds for an upset, here? How could Duran win it, if at all?

Robinson always wins these match-ups but did he ever fight anyone as good as Duran?

You can make the argument that Duran fought someone very close to SRR in SRL and he won that initial fight. Like SRR, SRL also had significant advantages.

I wouldn't rule out Duran here.

He probably didn't fight anyone outright as good as Duran, but, as I alluded to, when you factor in the bigger size of guys liek Maxim, Fullmer, LaMotta, Basilio & co, it puts Robinson in good stead for a fight with Duran. What Robinson had to deal with in almost all of those fights was being the naturally-smaller man.

Duran was much better than Fullmer, for instance, but could he be any more bruising, being that he was a natural Lightweight, & Fullmer, a natural Middle? Fullmer was brutally rough, & bigger than Duran. I think Duran's best chance is to take it to him & try to rough him up, but Robinson would be simply too tough. He's proven his mettle in bruising encounters with foul-happy, larger men.

I think punching power gives SRR the decision here. SRL was strong and tough too and strong puncher himself but SRR seemed to have better power. He probably discourages Duran more than SRL did in their first outing.

Much more punishing power than Leonard, yes. The hook which disposed of iron-jawed Middleweight Fullmer would've severed Duran's head. Fullmer was bigger, younger (than Duran was at Welter) & had a better chin than Duran.

He was naturally the smaller man against whom? Basilio and Fullmer? I think not. What he did against Maxim is noteworthy but certainly Duran would have done better against Ray than that.



Which fight did you see of Ray Robinson's that makes you so confident of his victory?





He was a better puncher but Leonard could hit pretty well himself. Duran is a lot better defensively than Fullmer, not to mention all around. The comparison is off. I'd take Duran's chin at welterweight as being every bit as good as Fullmer at middle. You are really reaching to keep bringing him up. Ray Robinson did it to him once, you act like he's knocking out everybody he fought.

It's an awesome style matchup IMO. Duran was just about as good at what he did on the inside and at a mid-range as Ray was from the outside (and from a mid-range as well, though probably not as often as Duran). Ray's footwork and handspeed could really give Duran problems, and Duran's ability to get inside quickly and do great work in there could give Ray problems as Robinson could be sucked into the pocket with sluggers at times.

With a lot of factors in the ring canceling each other out (IMO), I'd probably take the bigger and overall harder-punching guy in Robinson to pull out a decision by about 9-6.

Though his record is unbelievable at 147 there is minimal film of him to really assess just what he could do.


Gavilan was probably as good or maybe even better than Duran as a Welterweight.

He could hurt Robinson and even drop him. Finishing him is highly unlikley. I dont think Duran could be as aggressive coming forward with Robinson as he was with Leonard. SRR could hurt you with any punch he threw. His uppercuts and combination punching were spectacular.

If Ray is able to back Duran up the fight is over.

Greatest combos I've seen. Always felt that his body punching was very underrated as well. That long right underneath was eye popping in it's brutality. Everything he sat down on sinks in.

Both guys at their best this would probably be a series of fights. I could definitley see Duran beating him on any given night.

Roberto was very elusive coming forward and was hard to make solid contact with. Robinson was also elusive and could stop on dime and hurt you.

I think we can all agree that when talking about guys on this level it pretty much comes down to some style advantage that one guy just can't overcome OR just plain who is better on that night.

I think we should be able to agree that Robinson was the more consistent fighter, which probably gives him an edge in a series.

Though I would also add some of the key physical advantages to that. He has everything necessary to beat Roberto.

Robinson would do well to keep things on the outside and try to make it a fight of range. speed, and power, ala Hearns. He has the tools.

Duran would do well to fucking charge Ray, close the gap, and not spend too much time trying to box from range. Both guys were great in the late rounds, so any bodywork from Roberto would pay good dividends. Cosign with everyone saying this depends mostly just on whose night it is, but I'd take Ray about 2/3 of the time.

Robinson's power was significantly better than Leonard's. And I think his chin was better as well. Robinson was also more comfortable on the inside than Leonard. He had significant advantages over Leonard that would work to his advantage over Duran. Duran would do his best to make this competitive, but I can't see this fight ending any way other than a clear decision or KO win for Robinson.

Robinson by a wide decision.

If you throw Robinson in Montreal, he loses. But that's the kind of effort from Duran it would take to win. I'd have to go with Robinson in a series from consistency. Even the Duran from the palomino fight is in Ray's ass.

No chance Ray is stopping Duran, not in 100 fights. They could both be dropped here.

I've read a few times of Marty Servo getting robbed against Robinson and from all accounts the Gavilan fights were nip and tuck. Duran at his best can't be dismissed, that much I know for sure.

Leonard & Hearns would win their share against Robinson as well. And check the user name, Ray wouldn't have fun there either.

I think amongst the top fighters, there can't be that much between any two fighters, and anyone can beat anyone on a given night. I don't think Robinson was invincible and his record proves that. 173-19-6. Divide that by 4 and we get 43-5-2, which would be the career record of an elite boxer in our time where boxers don't get to fight as often as before(meaning Ray's record was not like out of this world). It is still amazing, however, what Robinson has achived. Ray's achievement might be considered unbeatable, don't you think?

BTW, about Robinson never KOing Duran, well, I think you never know. He was knocking out middleweights so I don't think it would be all that wild and crazy to give some chance to that possibility.

It's about as likely as Duran stopping him. Don't see either happening. Two of the toughest men in history.

Well, I must agree with you. Duran might KO Robinson on a given night.
BTW, how would Robinson or Duran have gone against Mayweather? I think they would have quite a difficult time chasing and landing on that pretty face.

Robinson stopped bigger men than Duran, who were just as tough. He could take Duran out, if he needed to. Not saying he would, but he had the power & tools to do so. Not a shred of doubt in my mind.

There isn't a shred of doubt in your mind that Harry Greb would stop hopkins. This isn't as outlandish as that. But quite unlikely.

Not one of the bigger men you speak of had 1/10th of Duran's defensive capabilities. He was likely better on defense than Robinson himself.

Glass houses, good Sir (Holyfield flooring Tua, & all).

I would have loved to see your take before one of the many fights that Holyfield floored guys with granite chins. Big difference there when you're looking at a complete mismatch than a fight like this.

But touche, Hopkins not lasting the distance with Greb or Walker trumps all obscene claims this forum has ever seen.

Robinson had the ability to stop Duran. There was only one Tommy Hearns, but Robinson was murder from the outside, and had a similar combination of speed/power/accuracy from range that was arsenic for Roberto. It's not the most likely scenario, but tough to say Robinson couldn't stop Roberto.

Holyfield stopping Tua is considerably more likely. You should stick to discussing boxing with the senile, at least they might take you seriously you clueless bastard.

I guess I really hurt your feelings back ther, hey, Pickles. Don't sweat it --- it's just Boxing.

Robinson stopping Duran is very unlikely and Duran hurting (not stopping) Robinson is entirely possible. Robinson i'd have to favor, he's got a tough style for anybody and Duran would be at the disadvantage here but it's a close fight.



Yeah, badly. There's something about a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about that really just gets to me. It's not your fault though, you can't help it.

You have to favor Robinson over any Welterweight, that doesn't mean he would win. Like I said, if he is Montreal I've got Duran 8 days a week. Ray had the gifts to move and box more than I think he would. Hard to imagine sugar Ray robinson shying away from a brawl.

Duran from montreal is a tough fight but I think Ray Robinson just has a little more going for him, particularly at the weight. Clearly got the size, footwork, power edges. If Duran won, it'd be barely.

^^^Agreed. Looks like neither of us know what we're talking about, hey, PE?

Either that, or even a blind squirrel finds the odd nut.

It's just you, no big deal. As I've said before, you deserve credit for your effort.

Robinson`s chin is overated somewhat. He had a tough one but it was his recovery ability, ring IQ and Titanic heart that made him virtually impossible to stop. Similar to Ali both were hurt and down but always rallied back.




Servo would never put his title on the line against Robinson. Thats why Ray didnt get his shot until 1946. Had the Title been on the line Robinson may not have been as "nice" to him.

I completely agree with this other than the comparison to Ali's chin.

I was comparing his recovery ability and the reason why he never got KOd to Ali. He had the same set of qualities.

Don't sell yourself short, now. How about Tommy Hearns beating Jack Dempsey in a straight fight?

Certainly plausible, Dempsey had the power to stop Hearns if he caught him. But odds are Tommy just boxes circles around him. Toney & Qawi are pretty much sure things over Jack.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the 20's sucked ass. Hopkins or Jones would turn Greb into a punching bag.

Well, if you tell me, I believe you

I'd take Dempsey over Hearns, I just don't think Tommy was durable enough but certainly he was more skilled. Greb should be kept in his era.

Probably,Toney would destroy Dempsey. They are better matchups than massacres like Holyfield or Tyson against the little fella.

If he was in shape.

Id take Vinny Pazienza over Harry Greb.

Vinny would dance on his head.

Good call

Yes.

Kid Gavilan. Twice.

Different style than Duran but a GREAT fighter.




Well, there was a bigger issue. Servo didn't win the title until after Cochrane came back from WWII. Lot of guys missed their shots because of the war.



Greb never stopped anyone. Walker couldn't stop Flowers (and needed a gift to beat him) and Flowers was chinny. Based on results, cause that's all we have, one assumes Greb could have competed in any era though he'd get DQ'd a lot today.

As to this MM...both on their 'best day,' Rob wins BUT fights, real fights, don't happen that way. In the course of ongoing careers, this is a great 3 fight series or at least great pair of fights ultimately favoring Rob.