I think prime Macho would have ran circles around prime Chavez. I know Chavez was much faster in his younger days but Hector was still too fast for him. i think he would get in and out and basically it would be like Meldrick vs Chavez except without anywhere near the punishment Meldrick took and Hector wouldnt spend so much time inside. also Hector had a lot more power than Meldrick...

I still have Chavez.

K X P

Prime Chavez was able to cut off the ring on just about anyone he faced. His speed was very underrated, even his chin was tougher than later on. I think he'd win a competitive decision, by virtue of being the one going forward and showing aggression. Other than being nearly sent to hell by Rosario, had Camacho ever faced anyone who would apply the sort of monumental pressure Chavez would apply?

if he cut off the ring on taylor...he'd do it to camacho...and it wouldnt be that difficult...chavez UD12

I think Camacho is generally underrated because he chose to box and move when we all wanted to see him go to war.

I think he has the skills to win a decision.

Chavez still beats him, Camacho was very fast, but more athletic than a gifted Boxer. Their primes are in different divisions, but Julio would beat him anywhere. Much closer at 130 where JCC is incredibly overrated.

chavez never was able to cut the ring off with meldrick. meldrick willingly stood toe to toe with him for most of the fight so chavez didnt have to go after him lol... but even in those few moments in the early rounds when meldrick would get in and out and box a little from the outside, chavez wasnt able to cut off the ring and hector imo had much faster feet than meldrick

Taylor also had a huge heart and a warrior mentality. For example Chavez hurt him pretty bad in the 2nd round of that fight, could Camacho have recovered from that and still fought his fight? I dont think Hector had it in him to stand that heat.

Every great boxer has a night where their skills and speed are not enough and they must fight. This would be it for Camacho.

he came forward all night i thought....if he was able to stay in there with a fast guy like taylor i think he'd do great vs camacho...i dont think camacho had anything to keep chavez off of him...

I agree with Mark Chavez wasn't as good at 30 as he was later, but he still beat a hell of a lot better fighters than Camacho there too. Chavez was just too much man for Macho at any weight.

na man watch back to that fight against rosario. even after getting hurt the way he did, he showed intelligence by moving and holding until he could clear his head (something meldrick never knew how to do), but after that he was back to moving, firing off combos and controlling the fight. i dont understand why people criticize hector's heart when he showed he had a strong one after taking those shots from rosario. people think he didnt have heart jus cuz he didnt wana stand toe-to-toe after getting rocked? lol... meldrick was a great fighter and definitely had the warrior's spirit but his mentality wasnt the most logical as the 12th round of that fight against chavez proves. i think a fighter can have warrior's spirit without throwing ring intelligence out the window... anyway, meldrick imo had the faster hands but hector had the faster feet and i think that would let him get in and out against chavez and keep chavez from being able to cut off the ring too much... cuz in his prime hector could keep it up all night long

Taylor's bad knee was, I always felt, more of a contributing factor to his demise than is often considered. I mean, you virtually never hear it mentioned, yet I can't help but feel the result may have been different that night if it were the pre-injury Taylor, who showed he was a little more mobile prior.



Eloquent, & to the point --- though, I will say Camacho's odds are better, IMO, than many here are predicting. Chavez was nothing short of awful in his early-round attempts to corner Taylor in that first meeting, & Camacho was better at steering clear of danger. I think he has more than a solid chance to decision Chavez, though I'm not sure I'd back him outright.

I personally think that as soon as Chavez gets Camacho into trouble, he'll start to unravel. Taylor was beating Chavez for so much of the fight, not only because he was fighting a perfect fight, but because he was that much man. I don't think Camacho is anywhere near as man as Taylor.

Hector changed the way he fought forever after that lefthook by Rosario. He even joked about it later on when he said "Rosario hit me with with a lefthook and made a pussy out of me."

That is why he has a good chance against Chavez.

Yeah, the Rosario fight did change Camacho forever, but I don't think it made him less effective.

Yeah, but you need to be man enough to beat Chavez. For as smart as Taylor was fighting, he was taking it to Chavez the entire night until he started slowing down towards the end and started taking a beating. Camacho won't be able to run all night, and once Chavez starts catching him, Camacho wouldn't be able to hack it, in my opinion. Taylor fought nearly the perfect fight against Chavez. The only other man that fought Chavez that well was Whitaker, and he didn't run.

Speed yes. Camacho had the most Ive ever seen. I dont know that he had that great of a skill set though. I think Julio would work that body. He was from the old school and he broke you down body and then head.

meldrick took punishment the whole fight, it wasn't just towards the end when he slowed down a little bit... it started to show in the later rounds and that's when he took even more of a beating..

but i disagree, prime hector's legs could keep it up for a full 12 rounds... i think camacho would win a split decision



even tho i think you guys are confusing "having heart" and "throwing ring intelligence out the window" i agree with this right here. camacho wasn't a mental case after the rosario fight like some ppl make him out to be. he jus started using movement even more and attacked more cautiously (which might have made him an even more difficult fighter to beat)

They did fight and Camacho lost every rd. He could have performed better at a lower weight when Chavez wasn't at his best. But i don't see how he could improve enough to win.

I think some people confuse speed with boxing ability. Camacho was no Whitaker, not by a long shot. Running wouldn't beat Chavez, he would have to throw punches and Hector wasn't that hard to find and didn't have the strength to keep him off.

A great Boxer can be elusive while engaging. Hector would overwhelm lesser fighters with speed, landing and then moving. It just wouldn't work here.

im talking about prime vs prime. hector was obviously not the same in '92 as he was in '83. I think Camacho had great boxing skills. I agree with you that his athleticism didnt hurt him but macho would move laterally and jab extremely well and then explode forward with a combo then move off at angles while still firing off shots. he also knew how to hold really well when he needed to so he knew his way around the ring... i really dont agree that hector wasn't hard to find.

i think hector would move, hold and outpoint chavez. i think chavez would win the later rounds tho

He wasn't that far off, I agree he was a bit better earlier, but not enough to win. Couldn't disagree more about him being a great boxer and your last sentence is telling. When he "holds" Chavez he is going to get beat up. Not strong enough to keep him from working inside.

I dont remember Camacho ever having that good of a jab. He pawed it alot maybe Im remembering him after Rosario.

To borrow a phrase from Prod, Camacho was a fake boxer. I thought he had a great shot at beating Chavez when they fought. I'm not making the same mistake twice. He could never beat him, no matter how many times they fought.

do you box?

What Mark is trying to say is that too many people equate speed and flashiness for skill, which is just fundamentally incorrect. Castillo was a much more skilled boxer than Camacho ever was, and he wasn't fast or flashy at all.

i understand that but i feel that hector had a good style for his own personal attributes. he would angle off when he got off combos and it usually worked great. but i actually never really thought of hector as that much of a flashy fighter (style-wise). he never really showboated that much and if you consider speed a form of flashiness then ya i guess he was lol. i consider flashiness when the boxer is actually trying to be flashy... like letting your hands down (something hector didnt do), shuffling, leaping punches lol...

I'm a fat, 40yr old drunk who boxed in his youth. I have had my nose broken before, but that's besides the point. I just think you're putting too much weight on Camacho's "prime". He changed when he faced the best fighter he had ever fought. I find it hard to believe Julio couldn't bring out that same change and I'm positive that Hector couldn't stay away from him. That being said, I've been wrong many times when I'm positive. We just see this two different ways.




Who did Hector ever outbox? Honestly, he couldn't do it against a 45yr old Duran & he couldn't do it against a Mancini who hadn't fought for years. I understand that's after Camacho's "prime", but who did he school in his prime? An ancient Limon? Louie Loy? Hector is out of his league here.

My thoughts exactly...when I hear people rave on Hector's prime, I say "against who?" Just another New York hype job with some talent and more press.

fair enough. hector was wasted talent imo... it's true he didnt really go after the biggest names when he was in his prime... i guess we'll never know since hector was fighting those kinds of ppl in his prime.



cmon man... a hype job couldnt beat rosario and ramirez in their day

i dont think ramirez was in his day when camacho beat him he already had like 93-94 fights under his belt had already been ko'd by olivares..and he had already been beaten by ray mancini,arguello, and rosario....and the fight with rosario couldve gone either way...i think it was split decision win for camacho....camacho had talent but isnt as good as some people made him out to be...

Why not? Rosario was a good fighter; so was Camacho. That's it. Hype job applies when you figure Camacho was treated like a GREAT fighter in the making. He's a slightly better edition of the overrating of Zab Judah.

WOW! A lot of you are underrating Camacho here! I've only read the last few posts, but he was a "hype job" and he's being compared to Judah? I don't think there were too many that could take him 130 or 135. At 130, there would be no question in my mind that he would be too fast of Chavez and he wouldn't have stood and traded with him like Taylor did.

And it wasn't so much WHO Camacho beat, but HOW he beat them. He SHUT OUT and stopped Limon after Limon went 15 rounds with Chacon, he SHUT OUT Ramirez right after Ramirez stopped Rosario and a few years before Ramirez was still good enough to get a "win" over a young Whitaker, he SHUT OUT Boza Edwards, SHUT OUT Howard Davis, SHUT OUT Pazienza, and beat both Mancini and Rosario. Most of his fights weren't even close! Up into his first fight with Haugen (where he was heavy into his drug use) almost all of his fights were either won by stoppage or by UD. His only close fights were to Mancini and Rosario. He beat most of the big names in his divisions and he was somehow a "hype"?

I thought he fought Mancini late, when Ray hadn't been in a ring for a couple years?

Whenever it was, I thought ray deserved the decision.

I thought the fight was close. There will always be fighters that come along that, no matter how they performed throughout their career, will make another fighter look bad.

Those comments weren't directed at you. I don't think I even read your posts in this thread. There's no doubt in my mind that you've seen Camacho's fights and with you it's just a matter of opinion. I'm talking about those who just glance at his record and make judgments

He was a talented fighter and had a sick chin. Just more of an athlete than he was a pure boxer. I think people get that mixed up sometimes.

A prime Judah does not go in the same sentence with even a fat overweight coke snorting just had sex on the same day as the fight Comacho.

I remember Camacho was in an anti-smoking commercial a few years back, talking about how he couldn't get out of bed without grabbing a smoke.

Eh, good fighter, I just never really liked him.

Its similar to a basketball player who can leap out of the gym. Its great to have that God Given ability but it may also stunt the growth of your actually skills or fundlementals. Hector was that way in that he could beat you with pure speed and never developed his skillset the way many feel he couldve.

Thats what made Pernell Whitaker so special because he had both the speed and the skills. Duran too.

Skill & talent are often mistaken for being the same thing.

This.

Chavez would beat Camacho because it's Chavez vs. Camacho

I've seen what you mean but was never that impressed. he had great speed and could do a lot with guys who were already well past it. Limon had gone the distance with Chacon and others...and after all those wars, was shot. Boza had a foot in the grave. Howard Davis? Really? And I didn't see any shut out against Paz (competitive fight). I think a lot of credit should be had for beating most of the men Camacho beat...and Arguello gets that credit.

I've just never been all that into 'how' fighters get beat. Dudes with sick speed can turn in some scorching performances. It's like when old timers talk about seeing 'prime' Ali against Cleveland Williams. Really? He fought a statue and people are in awe? Never got that.

And hey, at least I said he was better than Judah.

Chavez sons Hector.

Yes? What about it?

He was agreeing with what you said

It's like that, "co-sign" phrase, then?

I'm still trying to keep up with some of the parlance for a simple, "I agree" on Internet forums, heh

Well, "this" is more a MaxBoards thing anyway. This place has a dialect all it's own.

Whats Hector up to these days? LOL

They had an interview of him fairly recently on a spanish language network that was some funny shit. Dude was practically unintelligible and sounded really mashed up.

no they're not. hector had great boxing skills as well. he knew his way around the ring and had great defense. in his prime he could run circles and hold whenever he wanted to until he found a good opportunity to rush his opponent with a combo. he had a sick style... watch the first round of his fight against cornelius boza-edwards. and that fight was after rosario too...

I agree with you. I was simply saying people routinely fail to distinguish the difference between skill & talent. It's a simple distinction, but people often seem to confuse them as synonyms.

I wasn't saying Camacho lacked skill. He didn't.