Hi guys. Been lurking around here occasionally for longer than I care to remember and I don't recall seeing this debated before. Looking at the way Pac's developed over the last few years its difficult to pick against him versus anybody, but prime JLC is a brutal assignment for any lightweight. I'm firmly on the fence with this, so take it away boys.

Not too difficult to me. JLC was difficult to hit from the outside, but Casamayor and Johnston showed that he could be hit with a quick straight left. In fact, that was the one clean shot Casa landed. Pac would hit him with it, but he would also be on his toes so he'd never get full extension on the shot. Kinda like he never got his A shot off on DLH. Just kinda poking with it, because JLC would rape him inside. Manny has the stuff to stay out all night, and better speed then Mayweather.

Pac by decision. 8-4.

I will not go with pac on this one based on one fight at lightweight vs a C level fighter. JLC was an elite fighter, probably a great fighter at that weight. no way pac stops him, he could win some rounds with his boxing but eventually he would get worn down by JLC's body attack and have no choice but to war in the final 3 rounds. This is playing into JLC's hands. UD JLC 7-5

7-5 either way...............

Castillo by close decision, he could hurt Manny easier than Pac could hurt him, the pressure and body work wear Pac down and JLC pulls it out down the stretch.

Pac by TKO. Too good of an athlete and too dynamic with his footwork. He can create angles and get in and out. Much more difficult to time since he has refined his boxing skills. JLC was a very good fighter but gets overated some on here.

How so? Johnston x2, Mayweatherx2 & Casamayor proves he belongs in the high ranks of the division. He certainly wasn't Ike Williams, but he wasn't Greg Haugen either.

Like I said he was very good but he never had a real period of dominance. He fought some good fighters but when fans put him on the same level as Chavez who ran through divisions that is overating him IMO.

I didnt say he was Greg Haugen though.

A better question is how much would Pac have to pay JLC to drop two pounds (no way Pac even considers fighting him at 135). And could JLC make the weight without someone's foot tampering with the scale?

He did more at Lightweight than Chavez did and by a lot. I don't know of any Lightweights that would dominate the competition he faced. He punished solid fighters like Julio Diaz & Lazcano while going tooth and nail with the elite. No shame there.

I never said he was Chavez. But he is a top20ish alltime Lightweight. That = great.


Edit: Though thinking more on this fight, Pac probably wins a tight one that could go either way. He is a very dynamic talent. Speed isn't much of an issue for Castillo. But combined with that kind of power it's a handful for anyone.

Chavez would have walked through guys like Corrales and Casa and left them battered and helpless. Not saying Castillo was garbage but Im not sure if he is top 20.

I doubt that, he would have had tough fights with both of them. He didn't walk through Ramirez, no reason to think he could walk through Casamayor. I would favor him to beat everyone JLC fought with the exception of Floyd. But he would have trouble along the way.

Top20ish, it's a loaded division. He is right there with Buchanan, Dejesus and their like. Based on accomplishments, they would all be ahead of Chavez at 135.

Casamayor would make things interesting for eight or nine rounds, but wouldn't beat Chavez. The way he fights, I have to say, Corrales would get a frightful beating from Chavez, IMO.

Corrales would get a far worse beating than the one Chavez laid on Rosario, who I'm sure hit harder than Corrales. I have my doubts that Castillo would have been able to beat Rosario. Castillo was a good lightweight, but he could be hit, and we really only saw him in with one truly big puncher at lightweight (Corrales). Diego rocked him on a number of occasions with the right hand. I can't help but think of the one that Rosario turned Livingston Bramble's lights out with. Bramble's chin was every bit as good if not better than Castillo's. It certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility that Castillo beats up Rosario - he was vulnerable and Ramirez got in his ass. But I think it's more likely that he gets blown up at some point by Chapo.

As for the subject of this thread, I'd take Pacman. I think his speed, power and activity level would be a nightmare for Castillo. Pacman is a complete fighter now. The guy who got beat by Morales in their first fight would have been beaten by Castillo. But that aint Pacman anymore.

It would be totally one sided. Chavez liked to torture guys and Chico may have been forced to submit on his stool. Especially when the body is broken down.

I see Pacquiao taking this one. Anyone without a phenomenal defense is going to get beat up by Pac. His offense is too damned good.

JMM dosent have a phenomenal defense and he didnt get beat up and is at worst 1-0-1 against Pac. its a amazing how great you can look against crappy competition. Pac is still off balance and lunges alot. He still is largely a one handed fighter. Arturo Gatti looked great against Dorin before getting destroyed by Mayweather and great against Daamgard before getting wrecked by Baldomir. Pac has looked great against pretty much retarded step childern and all of a sudden he is the super complete fighter. He is the same fighter that JMM clearly beat 2x

You are full of shit. You hug PBF's nuts and his opposition is balls in comparison to Pacmonster's. The best fighter Floyd fought by far is JLC and he didn't look the least bit impressive.

JMM clearly beat twice? Whatever. Pacquiao's oppositions rates pretty well all time, you seem to know very little about quality of opp.

all i fucking said was Diaz, DLH and Hatton are not as good as Baldomir or judah, DLH and Hatton, but somehow Floyd gets shitted on for those fights were Pac gets his dick sucked for winng those fights. the first fight against JLC was close, the second was a 10-2 type fight and very clear decision.

JMM beat pac pretty clearly both times the first fight Pac won 3 fucking rounds second was closer but JMM still won that fight.

- The issue with Floyd is that since facing JLC, Hatton and DLH were his best wins. They are decent wins but when that's the best you do over 5 years while you are in your prime, it kinda sucks. He did stop Hatton, the DLH performance was kinda ugly.

- Pacmonster did it more impressively and it didn't take 4 years of build up before fighting them, he did it in one.

- I think most feel JLC won the first one but I agree it was pretty close, not unlike JMM Pacmonster. 10-2 in the rematch? I'd say more like 7-5 but my point was that against quality opposition, you just may struggle. You may have close fights and you may lose.

-Pacmonster won both fights IMV, close. I can see the other way but pretty clearly is incorrect judging by public perception. They were very close fights pretty unanimously.

JMM at 126 and 130 was a more formidable fighter than Castillo was at 135. And anyone who scored Castillo-Mayweather II 10-2 for Mayweather: (a) can't score a fight, ( didn't watch the fight closely, © was wearing some serious Mayweather goggles, of (d) all of the above. 8-4 Mayweather would be a stretch. I had it 7-5 for Mayweather and it easily could have been called a draw. Mayweather spent almost all of the fight on his bike. It was one of his stinkier performances.

Both JMM-Pacman fights were close enough so that you can't argue with the outcome, particularly the second fight. I thought JMM won both, but I think I scored both fights for him by 1 point. In a fight that close it's hard to say a guy got robbed. I also firmly believe that if Pacman and JMM meet up at 140, Pacman will knock Marquez out. He's definitely better suited to fighting above 130 than Marquez is.

And there's no question Pacman's opposition is significantly better than Floyd's. Even the faded version of Morales that Pacman knocked out in their 3rd fight was better than the DLH that Mayweather faced. His first KO win over Morales was better than any win on Floyd's resume. His two wins over Barrera were also better than any on Floyd's resume. His KO of Diaz, drubbing of DLH and demolition of Hatton were more impressive than Floyd's run against Baldomir, DLH and Hatton.

Floyd and Pacman's upcoming fights only highlight the difference in their respective competition. One man is facing a fighter who looked maxed out at 135 and is fighting him two weight divisions north of that weight class. The other is facing one of the top welterweights at a weight that is much closer to his opponent's fighting weight.

I'd only put his first win against MAB up there with beating Castillo twice. MAB and EM were great fighters but EM wasn't all that great in his second go around with Pac (and it's not just because he lost, but the evidence before and during the fight), he was a spent force by that time.

JLC's victories against Stevie Johnson make him look more formidable p4p than the MAB or EM of those respective nights. But I give Pac that MAB fight, if nothing else Barrera still had his resilience that night.

I thought Floyd won both fights; he just fought JLC's fight in the first. But one of the reasons JLC is considered to be so great is because he gave Floyd close fights. Think about that.

Also, keep in mind that JLC was a huge LW, probably in the 150s on fight night.

I don't see Pac easily hurting JLC here, like some are saying. Corrales imo hit harder than Pacquaio and JLC walked through his bombs for 10 rounds.

Having said all that, I'd probably go with Pacquiao in this matchup. Depends on if he manages to stay on the outside, though.

Pac by decision. He stays away and fights from the outside. I don't think he could stop JLC.