PWill & Chad, both young, talented, and currently and for the foreseeable future, avoided.

Bring up either of these dudes for a fight, and it boils down to - RISK/reward, lets fight an established dude, more $$, less risk.

Are these guys screwed? I mean if Calzaghe or BHop wont fight Chad, what are his options? Glencoffe again - a great fight, but he got no cred for the first fight. Fighting Diaconu wont do it for him either.

PWill - if Tonio wont fight him, what can he do at JMW? or extend himself at MW. Meanwhile, he has to lean on Nipple to buildup his gates.

I mean a likely scenario is that these guys NEVER have a big fight, and that just sucks.

Dawson no he doesn't have that charisma a Jones or Tarver has. He doesn't have the smarts a Hopkins has. He doesn't have that heir of arrogance Calzaghe has. He is for the most part plain vanilla outside of the ring even while being exciting in it.

PWill is tougher because for the life of me I don't know why his star isn't shining bigger. He beat the man who beat the man, he is fairly well spoken, he is willing to face anyone and his style is clearly not boring at all.

I think you are right about Dawson. People also resent the Johnson decision and there is a bit of a backlash from that.

As for Pwill, I think he made a bad first impression on some, with all the trash talk used in trying to get Margarito in to the ring, before he had really done anything in the sport. He gained respect for his performance against Margarito and then he was soundly out boxed by a tired, but determined Quintana and handed a major defeat. While his first round KO in the rematch was the best scenario for him, it doesn't erase the other loss, nor does a second first round KO of a tomato can.

Of the two, Pwill definitely has the more star potential. There's nothing for him at 154, I think 160 is where he'll make his next major advances in popularity.

I'd say PWill has a better shot cause he competes in more glorious weight divisions. I don't foresee enough defining fights in Chad's horizon to elevate him in the public's consciousness. Paul has some potential name fights he can make, if he is able to compete around 154ish.

Very few fighters actually achieve superstar status. Of the two, I think PWill stands the better chance of becoming a headliner, but I doubt either will become "superstars." Not to be negative, but I think boxing is going to be in for a decent stretch of dry spell on true superstars.

There isn't a 90's RJJ type talent or personalty on the horizon. There isn't a Bhop type personality either. There isn't a DLH level figure whose popularity transcends boxing on the horizon. The heavyweights are historically bad. Cotto isn't the draw that Tito was. Cal and Hatton are both in the twilight of their respective careers. Manny's pushing 30. Floyd is done for now. Your average sports fan couldn't pick Izzy, Raffy, Marg, or PWill out of a lineup.

It'll be interesting how things play out.

Dawson will be a star whens there actually people to fight. There aren;t alot of people with names in his division.
Paul will be with other big names to fight.


But they both will be hard because the south isn;t really into boxing....trust me I live in this shit hole.

This is what im fearing too. You would think that at least PWill could achieve maybe Shane type status (if Margo was his foil). But I guess beating Margo just doesnt impress peeps as much as beating Oscar does.

Like Jefe, Im kind of at a loss as to why PWIll isnt sticking. Chad's on Showtime, and still hasnt had a "big" win that would get peeps to notice him (although beating Glencoffe is prob. the best quality win at LHW w/in the past few years).

Isnt PWill w/ Heymon. Why cant the HBO machine push PWill effectively?

I want to have sex with El Jefe's boxing posts. If anyone here knows how I can do that, holla.

I personally don't think Dawson is that exciting to watch.

Williams is already a superstar in my book.

I think Juan Diaz has some star potential.

Maybe not, Paul still has more haters than supporters and Chad is despised. If Dawson can get the Calzaghe fight he so desperately wants. That could turn some people his way. As Joe is far from beloved. More than likely just a long dominant reign with people waiting for him to lose.

Paul has a better shot. But there is nothing easy in this business. Let's face it. Shane Mosley was never a superstar. If Paul was going to get there I would think he would have more fans by now than he does.

Have to vote no if pushed. But they have this superhugger and I think both will spend years on p4p lists.

I usually draw the line of calling someone a star or superstar based on if your average NFL/NBA/CFB non-boxing fan has heard of him and watched him fight at least once. The more familiar they are with the fighter, the bigger the star power. In the past 5 years, boxing is sharing more and more of the fighting limelight with MMA. Boxing is losing this battle for the interest of the causal fan with UFC.

Imo, how boxing is going to deal with MMA is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. In the mid to late 90's I had huge fight parties/BBQ's filled with casual fans. They all knew who Oscar, Shane, MAB, Morales, Chico, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, Roy, Nas, Holy etc were. If I tried to have a Chad Dawson vs. ______ or a Baby Bull Diaz vs. _______ fight party, me and three other guys would show up. I just don't see anything in how they're marketed, or in their personalities which will change that.

It's the primary reason why we're seeing so many shot/marginally shot name fighters staring in PPVs/ There really aren't many stars in the waiting to take their places.

Bottom line is, until fighters fight more and are developed as ticket sellers in local/homebase markets, there wont be many stars period, in the near future

C'mon man...be fair...two fights a year in the self esteem generation-y set is impressive. LOL

Hey, it kinda reminds of when you set your clock back and then forward every calender year

Paul seems willing to be active. The sport is just falling deeper and deeper into a niche sport in the US. Castillo/Corrales 2 selling about half as many PPV's as Mayweather/Baldomir tells that tale.

It's just unfathomable that Boxing has blown it on the net so bad. In every generation, new tech was exploited by Boxing. Local shows built on box office should be regularly free on the net and be garnering young fighters valuable impressions. People bitch about lack of network but never try to go around it. Can you imagine a guy like Angulo fighting his 2-3 HBO fights this year buttressed by 4-5 webcasts? With ads? Tyson became a STAR by fighting old timer style. Chavez did too.

How can a guy like PWill or Dawson make themselves must see if they fight as often as a solar eclipse?

On another note, for Mark too, I STILL say Dawson/Shaw should try to get a fight with Erdei and resurrect the lineal/Ring title debate into something meaningful. If they can't so be it, but it's an angle and one which, with the right fighter (Dawson is the right fighter) could build some story. get creative...do some YouTube smack videos...throw up a pie chart showing why you're the 'real' champ. It would have fans howling at each other and generate more buzz than hoping HBO has Max on so the whole crew doesn't pretend Dawson is a curse word.

You think Zsolt would take that fight? As much as I love Chad. he isn't that brash, talking type of personality.

Chad needs to dust off his passport and fight Kessler. Joe is saying one more fight in June and I know Chad desperately wants it. But it's unlikely that he is going to get it and it's unlikely that Joe will only have one more.

Fighting and beating Kessler is his best shot at getting Calzaghe.

I don't think Universum would take it. The point is that Dawson needs to do something to stand out from the crowd...if there's really still a crowd for Boxing at all.

Yup, the crowd for the tarver fight was pitiful. If by the grace of God he gets the Calzaghe fight. the first pint in Wales is on me.

Calzaghe won't give him the shot.
Chad as no name yet.
____________________________

Few American fighters can reach the star status like fighters from other countries. PR, Mexican, and Philipino as a people in whole have fighting in their blood. PR and Mexican for example, boxing is a big sport. Theres just as many baseball fields in PR has their is boxing gyms. Theirs family of boxers who take the sport with them down the line and they fuel the sport with prospects and amatuer champs.

PR, Mex, and Phil are way more appreciative of the sport and therefore are more supportive of their native land's biggest fighter.

Americans will never have that....they had it when boxing was a major sport in the USA when everyone was at least a casual fan and when it used to be a racist thing (great white hopes). Now the fan base is even less due to MMA.

Which they can claim for their own, because it will never be as popular as boxing in other countries.

I wouldn't go that far. It's bigger in Japan than it is here. UFC is growing in Europe by the day.

I don't know, they go crazy for it in Japan.

As far as boxing popularity In America goes, I agree with you to an extent. However, a part of the casual fan disinterest has to be connected to how shitty the heavyweights are. Causal fans love the heavies, and will always gravitate towards a marquee fight involving them.

It's just amazing to me in the age of 6'4" 245 pound 6 percent bodyfat 40 inch vertical "me" athlete, that the American heavies are as unfit, unskilled and uncharismatic as they are. If we got 4 or 5 engaging American heavyweights (like in the early/mid 90's, the casual fan would become interested again.

Ive been watchin Dawson since he was younger. Ive talked to him at foxwoods after a fight before, hes just a quiet humble guy.

Not always the right mix for crossover appeal.

Yeah true Japan is huge with MMA.....which makes boxing worse.


About the heavyweights...idk why the heavyweights are soo important to boxing. Yes KOs...but what else? Smaller fighters are much more entertaining to me than heavier ones. I rather watch welterweights and down than any other weight class. They punch more, more action and more skill. Cotto vs. Margarito is my fight of the year. I have never liked Hevayweights really after Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis left.
I don't think we can say that boxing's fan base is slacking due to Heavyweights.

Its due to promoters and fighters like PBF.
When fighter were fighters and not self promoters..when they fought the best out there everyone was a fan at least casual fans. Now we have fighter like Mora who dropped a 7 figure pay day because what? He didn't want to fight in TN. Now Margarito who dropped a fight with Will and Mosley for whatever reason. PBF who basically avioded the whole welterweight division.

Its boxings own fault, but its getting biger because of the threat of MMA and Top Rank and DLH making up.

Floyd is one of the few fighters that casual fans care about. I couldn't pay my boys to watch Marquez/Vasquez. But they all know when Mayweather was fighting.

And thats true, but thats because of DLH and he appeals to younger people like Judah int he past did. But if he was in really imprtant fights aganist serious opponets like Cotto or Margarito.

Tell me more people wouldn't come over to boxing.

I don't think people will ever come over to Boxing again. it's a niche sport for life. The majority of the youth prefers MMA. If you randomly have a conversation with a younger guy and ask if he saw the fight. You would hear, yeah Lesnar is a monster.

Boxing has been on a great run of big fights for the last couple years and the fan base has just dwindled. Not only are there fewer new fans. There are an increasing number of former fans.

The funny thing is, you probably couldn't pay of fan of Vasquez or Marquez to watch a Mayweather fight.

The only thing that is going to keep this sport alive is the foreign market. Domestically, the sport is dying quickly. The foreign market will keep it alive. Hopefully a personality will emerge over the next few years that will revive it US. More importantly, hopefully a promoter will be around that will be able to guide that personality to the mainstream.

Fans of those warriors are far from casual. The average sports fan has never heard either name. There are people that consider themselves Boxing fans that have never heard either name and have no clue that they waged three wars.

Gary Shaw deserves a good deal of credit for that.

I'm not ready to condemn boxing to being a niche sport for life, but the development/marketing end is really lacking. At it's core, watching two skilled people punch each other in the face is appealing to the masses. Hell, watching two unskilled people punch each other is appealing to the masses (Kimbo) if marketed successfully. If you had even 3 or 4 semi-skilled heavyweight with the look, and personality of Brock Lesnar, the sport would start to bring back some causal fans. The promotion of boxing in America (both at local and national levels) is terrible. It starts with the pathetic U.S. Olympic team performance and works it's way up.

I trutly feel that PBF was the one. He was a young black guy (could attrack americans too) , had the skill and he could have had the personality before he got all "bad guy".
If he only had the balls to fight EVERYONE in the welterweight division he could have caused some MAJOR fights.

Cotto vs. PBF in NY before the PR parade would have solid out and had tickets for viewing rooms
PBF vs. Margarito in Las Vegas

Hatton/DLH figths sold big time. Judah did good too. Imagine those two especially the Cotto fight in NY.

Part of the problem is that most, if not all, of the big fights have been on PPV. And the biggest of the big fights (Mayweather-DLH) was a stinky turd.

Just to explain my last point, I don't think Mayweather-DLH was a horrible fight like Ruiz Oquendo. But it was mediocre at best. The casual fans of the sport, who were the majority of the folks who tuned in to that fight, were expecting something great. I saw the fight with several of my colleagues who were casual fans of the sport they were all pretty dissatisfied. Another colleague of mine, who swore up and down before the fight that Mayweather was the greatest fighter ever and that no one could beat him, came into my office on the Monday after the fight and told me he'd never pay for another fight again.

Mayweather-DelaHoya isn't the only fight like this, but it was the most prominent. Stinkfests like Hopkins-Wright, Hopkins-Taylor II, Mayweather-Baldomir, and DeLaHoya-Trinidad have also helped to turn folks off. At some point, the folks putting stuff out on PPV have to think about the quality of the matchups more than they do the quality of the names of the fighters involved in the matchups.

I don't know, but someone needs to remind Paul Williams that he lost a fight this year. His team talks too much shit.

I couldn't have said it better. I felt embrassed after that fight. Every casual fan I knew though them dude were just going to throw down in the ring........even I was disappionted. Fights like that like boxing by turning off fans.

While the good fights that I don't mind paying $50 to see aren't seen because they don't have De la Hoya after their first name.

In MMA your destined to see people go at it and someone get KO'd. The rounds are made for it.
5 mins + 3 rounds + 4 oz gloves = KO. People love seeing that plus it like 5 fights that 70% of them end in KO. Why wouldn't they go for MMA and not boxing?

Certainly valid points. But todays casual fan seems to care more about the event than the fight. It's not like Mayweather/Dlh was the first boring Floyd fight. Not that I found it to be bad. I had enormously low expectations. So i was pretty pleased with it.

And it's not like it stopped people from watching the Hatton fight.

You've got to ask yourself, who has/will have the power to "save boxing"?... This isn't going to be popular thing to say, but I believe that the fate of boxing as a viable sport is in the Golden Boy's hands. Arum's old, King is nearly out already, nobody else has a stable. DLH will have the power to make a boxing league; you want a chance to make money, you join Golden Boy, you want a chance to fight the Champ you join Golden Boy.

Long before they even bought The Ring, I said that Golden Boy was trying to legitimize the Ring championships and form a partnership of sorts in the eventuality that they would need a "Golden Boy" belt of some kind so that they could wrestle control away from sanctioning bodies. Next thing you know, they buy the magazine. They now have a legit belt to offer up and it's not hard to see a scenario in the future, when they have even more of a stranglehold on the sports big name contracts, that they could essentially make the boxing equivalent of the NFL. They've had a close relationship to Mark Burnett and The Contender for a few years, serving as promoter on numerous bouts featuring their fighters. There are quotes all over the place of Oscar saying that the Contender tv shows and format is good for boxing. It doesn't take much imagination to see Oscar taking the Contender's tournament format to the next level, getting on network and trying to make it happen. It's a pretty logical step once you have all the pieces in place, in the form of a deep and quality fighter stable, the most legitimate championship belt, and the only legitimate star face left in boxing, Oscar De La Hoya, to front it.

The point is, for boxing to become anything more than a niche sport, there will have to be one hand guiding the tiller. The only entity who may have a chance to do that is Golden Boy Promotions. In my opinion, instead of rooting against Golden Boy Promotions, we actually have to hope that Oscar is thinking of the future on a very big scale, power hungry and looking to make GGP a corporation on the level of the NBA, NFL, NHL etc. because no one else can do it. I know everyone hates them, but frankly, Golden Boy getting a monopoly on the sport may be the sports only chance.

WOW! I just imagined everythign that will have to get done before this happens.....It looked like the future of the Terminator movies. Lol.


ANd it won't EVER happen. Too many people will lose money. There won't be too many title fights, because the belt mafia (wbc/a/o) won't exist.

and I want to have mad passionate monkey sex with your discarded sleeves