Funny, this matchup never occured to me until this afternoon. Let's say Pavlik elects to take it easy for a few fights and stay away from Abraham. King Arthur decides to burst on to the American scene anyway and challenges Bernard. Who wins?

I think Bernard holds on to win against a late charging Abraham. Arthur's deliberate pace works to Hopkins' advantage and I think it looks a little like Hopkins match against Winky, where Wright covered up, and Hopkins threw quick, relatively meaningless combos while the earmuffs are on, then effectively timed him when he opened up.

Hopkins lays into the body whenever Abraham puts the earmuffs on and is always just out of range whenever he comes from behind his shell with a flurry, then pops a jab or a lead right and moves away. Repeat. Abraham isn't active enough to trouble Hopkins. Not only that, but Hopkins is much bigger and stronger than him. Hopkins by UD, 117-111.

Hopkins without too much trouble. Abraham isn't active enough, have definitely never seen him as a "hard charging" type, and he doesn't have the speed to make Hopkins wary. Also a bit too heavy footed to deal with Hopkins movement.

Hops would have fun in there. Abraham has nothing in the way of variety. And he's boring.

Abraham's punching power would be nullified even easier than it was against Pavlik.

I haven't seen one Abraham fight twice. He's trash. Nice athlete, Good speed and power, but totally without emotion and his style is boring as fuck. There are ALWAYS long stretches where he does nothing but hold his hands up. Even against guys he should blow away... if he had any fire.

Most of his fights are one sided. i've never been bored by any of them. I seriously thought you were joking. Priceless that abraham is the boring one in this fight. You complain about people shitting on Berto yet say a guy who fought 7 rounds with his jaw shattered in 2 places has no fire.



This would be a close fight that could go either way. i'd lean towards Hopkins. But wouldn't be surprised if Arthur beat him.

I didn't say he has no balls. No fire though. His style is yawn and so are his fights until he finishes it. Cover up for 2 minutes a round and then try to catch the guy.

If you want to talk about sheltered title holders....

Hops love is high on the boards right now, but this thread is hilarious. Abraham would knock his few remaining teeth into his old brittle face.


Abraham by chin shattering knockout in the 9th. Nard isnt superman. He turned back the clock for a good fight against someone who didnt take him seriously. Pavlik looked flabby and had no plan b. Someone is going to make Popkins stumble eventually, hypothetically theres no one more suited than a bruiser who with good handspeed that carries his power late.

Also, Abrahams guard will look more effective than you guys are giving him credit for. He wont be as succeptible to the angles Bernard showed against Pavlik, imo he also edges Pav for handspeed. Kelly fought like shit but still caught the old man a few times with shots that would have stunned lesser men.

I'd agree that Abraham might be the one if he didn't fight at such a casual pace. He opens up now and then, but not enough to make me think he'll make Hopkins too uncomfortable.

Hopkins is a better boxer than AA could ever dream of being and boring ass Abraham fights at a 58 year olds pace. He can do his usual shit because he pretty much only fights guys who don't have a chance.

I have no doubt a fight with Hopkins would be boring. All of Nard's fights are.

I'd still much rather see Pavlik-Abraham, I like Hops and how he dismantled the ghost but a fight with AA would be a snoozer imo.

Abraham has faced more real threats than Berto, and it's not even close. Jantuah was a big puncher. Eastman was a solid fighter as was Ikeke. Miranda could punch like a mule. Berto's list of victims isn't even close. Shit, I'm not sure if Berto's faced anyone as dangerous as Raul Marquez at this stage of his career.

That said. I don't find Abraham to be all that entertaining. He can be exciting when he opens up. But as you mentioned he can also simply hold his guard for 2+ minutes of every round and then look for one or two openings to throw a big punch or a combination.

He isn't versatile enough to beat Hopkins. Hopkins figured out Winky and Abraham's defense is basically the same. I don't see Abraham hurting Hopkins. And Abraham can be much less active in there than Winky. So I'd take Hopkins by clear decision. At least 8-4 and probably more like 9-3 or 10-2.

I'd like to thank Arthur Abraham for giving me someone new to hate.


He's held a title for 3 full years and the best fighter he has faced is Miranda.

At the same point in their careers it's a wash. Forbes and Rivera and Estrada vs Ikeke and old ass Eastman.

Berto has been in negotiations with Cotto and if that fight doesn't come off, he has Collazo.

Blah, blah, blah. Abraham is all man. Berto likes men all up in him. This is really unusual of you to become so attatched to such a queer fighter. Is he closet Canadian?

Well Ive only picked against Hopkins once in his career and that was the last fight so I am not going against the old man until he is walking with a cane and maybe then I`ll just layoff of it. Hopkins and Prodious1 taught me a lesson.

It's really ununusual of you to like such a boring, emotionless boxer.

Nothing boring about him. Balls to the wall. Tough as it gets. Fags like you hate him. That fits my usual formula.

Balls to the wall is a bit of a stretch isn't it? He goes through periods where he just doesn't punch. What makes him worth watching is his power, but his mentality is far from search and destroy in there.

If someone brings the fight to him a fight is what they get. Keep in mind we are talking about Hopkins here. To call Abraham the boring one in this matchup is like saying Roseanne is hot next to Jessica Alba.

You must have missed the Marquez fight? That was god awful, Marquez shouldn't have last a round with him, Sven Ottke would have been proud of AA. Subtract the broken Jaw win and coming out of his shell for 1 round to KO Miranda in a rematch (yes I picked AA, Miranda sucks) hardly makes him must see TV.

Hopkins wins pretty convincingly 8-4 or 9-3.

Abraham's the type who's not gonna be entertaining unless guys bring the fight to him and actually make him engage more than just covering up and coming out with a big flurry of bombs. It's why everyone wants to see Pavlik/Abraham so badly. Between 160 and 168, there really are only a handful of fighters, perhaps 3, who'll engage Abraham in legit firefights. Miranda already had his shot. Pavlik, obviously, is one of them. The other is Andrade. But to think that he's some all-out action fighter in the vein of Morales or Margarito or Pacquiao isn't accurate in my opinion.

That's a fight I'd like to see.

I wasn't insinuating he was. I think it's equally silly to label him boring. He is in there to knock people out. his record is proof of it. many late round stoppages.

He will destroy pavlik inside of three rounds.

I think Andrade can beat Abraham. For one, Abraham can't hurt Andrade, who's chin is about as hard as it gets and doesn't mind getting hit at all. Secondly, Abraham isn't active, fast, or slick enough to truly bother Andrade. He'd let Andrade tee off of him, and when he does come out with a big flurry, Andrade wouldn't back off of him. Third, Andrade would apply true, fight changing pressure. I could easily see this fight looking a lot like Margarito/Cotto. Andrade would stay on that ass for all 12 rounds. A fight in Germany, Abraham probably gets the nod on ring generalship and effective punches. In the U.S., Andrade wins because of aggression, activity, and punch output. It's a tantalizingly close, and entertaining, fight.

I think Abraham could hurt Andrade as much as the other way. Arthur is more of a puncher than Librado is and his chin shows no flaws. It would be a good scrap because AA isn't a mover and they will engage. He is the perfect opponent to bring out Abraham's brilliance. Arthur by either late stoppage on cuts or UD.

No one gets stopped between Andrade and Abraham unless someone's face was falling off. Both of their chins are top notch and both have balls like motherfuckers. Andrade's relentless pressure is what beats Abraham, likewise, Abraham's handspeed is what beats Andrade. I see it very even. I also think Pavlik has as good a shot at beating Abraham as anyone. His chin isn't Andrade-like, but he's double tough anyway, has balls, and would love to fight anyone who's willing to let guys tee off on him. I think you overrate Abraham a little too much Mark, and underrate Pavlik. Neither have fought anyone quite like the other, so I don't think there's anything in either one's history to show one having a considerable edge over the other.

I may very well overrate Arthur. I don't think I have ever underrated Pavlik. I picked him over Miranda and taylor. I even picked him over Hopkins though I bet on Nard.

I just see it as being a horrific matchup for him. Abraham will hurt him and when he does I can't see him letting him off the hook.

That's where we'll disagree then pal. I see both of them hurting the other at many points, but I don't think either will have quite enough to finish the other. Massive hearts on both of them you know. In my opinion, any stoppage comes when someone's face is virtually falling off. I also think that Pavlik hits more consistently harder than Miranda and has the length, reach, and size with good skills to give Abraham a really hard time.

Maybe, I've just seen Kelly in a bad way twice in the early going against guys that aren't even in Abraham's ballpark as a finisher.

I think it's hagler/Hearns 09. Arthur is just more man.

Yeah, but he's also come back in a big way afterwards. Pavlik's got enormous fighting spirit. In arguably the biggest, most important fight of his career against Abraham, there is no way in my opinion he doesn't give Abraham absolute hell for as long as humanly possible. If Abraham is more man, it's only just by a little. Pavlik hasn't had the luxury of fighting through a broken jaw yet.

Again, we will see. He was on the verge of being finished against Taylor & Nard. I don't question Kelly's heart at all. I just don't think he can take what Arthur brings at him. Neither of those guys have AA's finishing power. Same thoughts on the matchup I have had for a couple years. Nothing changes with each fight on both sides.

You're now a Wlad fan. Way to go.

The kiss of death.

Friggin' Prod, didn't you get the memo? It's Holyfield Appreciation Day dude. Mark is out for your blood as we speak. I suggest you doubletime it to the appropriate thread in general ASAP.

Prod isn't fit to be a Holyfield fan. He is the epitome of cocktongueness.