and how he got robbed is exactly the reason why amatuer/Olympic boxing leaves a bad taste in everyones mouth

This Ghanian is one of the few guys worth watching in this toruney and they totally screw him. I cant wait to see him as a pro. he's a fun guy to watch, I think he'll follow in the fine footsteps of guys like Nelson, Quartey, Kotey, and Clottey

Yep He looks strong. These Olympics are damn near unwatchable.

I couldn't agree more. Normally I'll take pretty much any opportunity to watch boxing but I'm no longer going to watch it in the Olympics. It's unreal these guys train their whole lives to have a chance to win a medal and represent their countries only to be screwed by this pathetic scoring.

Are you considering writing on this topic? I think it would be a great read.

I have been a little dissapointed at the scoring at the olympics. I mean how is it possible that after 3 rounds the final scores are 10 - 3 in a fight where based on my calculations were more than 550 punches thrown by both fighters. I still don't get it...

Huge Truewest!

because there are all these stipulations to what type of punch counts

Indeed, but it's also like pointing to punch stats in terms of arguing how or why a fighter won a professional fight too. In Beijing especially, in just about every fight I've watched, there have been possibly DOZENS of scoring punches landed that simply weren't counted, even though they clearly fit the scoring criteria. Jabs generally aren't getting counted, body shots definitely aren't, etc.

As Nate Campbell said last night on WNF, "It's not conducive to creating solid pro fighters." Why would a punch to the ear or a jab to the body NOT count? The scoring just encourages this slappy combo type of style that doesn't prepare fighters for the pros, nor does it produce good fights.

Then again I suppose you could always argue that a fighter generally has a particular style and sticks with it, whether it's a "pro-friendly" style or not. Still, it just doesn't seem to make much sense that knockdowns aren't scored, the referees are all up in the fight any time the fighters get close, the judges/point-tallying people (whatever) don't seem to know when a punch lands or not, etc.

If it's enough to turn off hardcore boxing fans, I can almost guarantee it's enough to turn off casual boxing fans and casual sports fans too.

Could you just go and stretch guys in the Olympics? Do KOs and KDs still count?

KO's yes, though you rarely see the type of one-punch KO's where a guy just gets knocked unconscious...probably because of the head gear and the size/make of the gloves. Knockdowns don't count for anything though. That flyweight the other day got 3 standing 8-counts and still won the fight on points. About 90% of the time the punch that causes the knockdown doesn't even wind up getting scored by the judges, too...which is lame.

Ugh. Fuck amateur boxing.

There are too many ex olympians that have gone on to do great things in Pro boxing and they are still doing it. Look what Gamboa is doing in just 12 fights.

As far as the slapping combos. The olympic scoring does not encourage that because slapping combos don't score points. It's the white of the gloves. I've seen plenty of clean shots landed with the inside of the glove and I haven't see a single one to get counted. Some referees even warn you if you throw a slap.

Olympic boxers who went on to achieve great things past and including 92 (when judging was changed to what it is now):

Oscar De La Hoya, FLoyd Mayweather, Kostya Tzsuy, Vasilli Jirov, Miguel Cotto, Jermaine Taylor, Joel Casamayor, Vernon Forrest, Wladimir Klitschko, Amir Khan, Joan Guzman, Povetkin, Antonio Tarver, Adrian Diaconu, Bute

Btw, Nate doesn't know anything about amateur boxing

Gamboa doesn't have that type of style. He's more of a pot-shotting type of fighter who uses his reflexes and legs, as are/were quite a few of those fighters you mentioned at the bottom of your post. And that's not the style I'm talking about.

I'm well-aware of what the rules and guidelines are in terms of what a scoring punch is SUPPOSED to be in the Olympics. The "slapping" that I'm talking about may as well be called "shoe shining" though, not literally slapping with the palm of your hand/glove. I've also seen MANY clean punches landed directly to a dude's face by the white part of the glove that haven't counted either. And when I talk about partially agreeing with Nate that this particular Olympic amateur system doesn't even do a good job of mimicking the pros, I mean that knockdowns aren't counted (and as I said before punches that cause them aren't either), the referees get overly involved in the fights (stopping the clock just about every time they intervene), and there is no difference in scoring between a hard punch and a barely-landed punch.

One fighter could be just running and jabbing all round, racking up points, and at the end of the round he gets knocked down by a clean, scoring punch and badly hurt or wobbled...but he makes it back to his corner for the next round. Based on that, the guy who ran and jabbed the entire round would still win the round...and that's not how the pros work. Shit, that's not even how the Olympics work either, because most of those clean jabs wouldn't even be counted and the punch that scored the knockdown probably wouldn't be counted either.

And why exactly does Nate not know anything about amateur boxing?

Well because he's making general statements that are false. He'll be facing a former great amateur and Guzman does slap here and there, rides a bicycle as well, we'll see I guess.

Boxing is a so much different from the amateurs and besides the Americans not many other nations are willing to become professionals. As bad as amateur boxing can get, pro boxing and its politics are even worse. So not a lot of boxers are thinking about turning pro. So since this is the case why should amateur boxing be geared toward professional boxing? But it isn't the case because I just listed many former Olympians who have become great pros. That;s why I think that Nate doesn't know anything or much about amateur boxing.

Btw, does anybody know how many Olympic medals U.S. has won after Seoul? I am looking at the all-time standing and U.S. is still in fron of Cuba but I don;t think that in the last 4 olympics they have won more than 3 gold medals.

This is a list of boxing medal winners by division and year: Click

Huh? You just contradicted yourself about 3 times in that post.

"Pro boxing is different from amateur boxing and americans are the only ones who turn pro." Alright.

"Pro boxing is worse anyways with its politics." Alright.

"But both those statements don't matter because I just named about 10 out of hundreds of Olympians who did well in the pros." Alright.

So you named a handful of fighters who were good amateurs AND good pros. And? For every single one of those names, there are 10 (if not more) that were terrific amateurs but wound up being "solid" pros, at best.

Aside from countries like Cuba where fighters aren't allowed to turn pro, what exactly are boxers working their entire lives for then? What, you train 3-4 hours a day or more for years just to become a carpenter the second you get out of the Olympics?

Past all that...I wasn't talking about politics. I was talking about styles and scoring.

So again, why doesn't Nate know anything about amateur boxing?

What was your amateur and pro record, by the way?

(EDIT)

And to answer your question, the US has medaled in boxing 15 times since the 1992 Olympics out of a possible 188 spots. A better question would be how many of those 15 went on to be major world titlists? Answer: 8.

All judged sports, amateur or pro, run the risk of angering the piss out of people. What happened to Samir was awful...but pro boxing will let you watch a guy go out and win for 12 3-minute rounds rather than 4 at 2, charge you 50 bones for it, and then say "Holyfield-Lewis ends in a draw...so does Chavez-Whitaker...and Casamayor retains against Santa Cruz." No doubting the thrill level is higher along the way in the paid ranks, but there's been enough fun to the last few days that there was plenty of entertainment value.

It's just a byproduct of a sport that at every level has political BS way out in the open. America had a lot to do with forcing these changes after the Roy Jones screwjob in 88, a Games where we won 8 medals. We have won around a dozen total in four games since.

Should have stuck with the devil we knew.

At the Olympics, winter and summer, we've had bribed skating judges, shitty smelling gymnastics judging...all of this consistently for years. Boxing's corruption in no worse. I don't begrudge anyone who isn't a fan of the amateur game; it's got serious drawbacks. Still beats the dog ass out of watching the same NBA guys I can watch the rest of every year.

You rephrased almost every point I made to suit your agenda. Fine, I won't continue with the argument then.

As far as me. No I have not had a single official amateur fight. Have participated in a club show, trained for a couple of years. Twice helped out with the set-up of the ring with the championship games in my home country and have watched too much amateur boxing in the past years. Anyway, that argument is weak in a sense that according to your question anybody who hasn't had amateur or professional experience ultimately knows less than the person who does. Not necessarily.



Thank you man, that was a great link. Yeah, so U.S. has won only 3 gold medals in the last 4 Olympics. I guess the sport of boxing is not as popular as it used to be or maybe if U.S. worked harder on its amateur program it could've had more U.S. boxing champions and greater interest in the sport.

and I don't think we can all blame it on the system in place because the Cubans have adjusted very well, what's stopping the U.S. fighters from adjusting? It' sad though for a country that's produced so many great fighters.

I agree with you Nate's generalizations in the statement he made the other night, though he's not alone. Still it's frustrating to hear people continue to say it, because the low scores this year are a clear indication that shoe shines and pitty pat slaps aren't being rewarded like they've been in past Games.

What's even more frustrating is meeting the guy who says that, then follows up with "well I haven't been watching this year anyway; I don't even know when it's on."

I've literally watched every minute of 2008 Olympic boxing and can't say that I've been disappointed. Fatigued, neglecting my wife and bordering on sleep deprivations, sure. But not disappointed, aside from the occasional screw job (like Li Yang's Ruiz-esque performace early this morning against that Ecuadorian kid)

Once again I agree wholeheartedly because a lot of posters who are anti-amateur haven't even seen 5 fights these olympics, yet they make those general statements. If you're going to judge without even checking the action out then your judgments won't be very credible.

Another point I want to make is that in the amateurs right now you have 14 fights in a row. You get 8 good to great and 6 crappy ones but the people remember the bad fights. It's frustrating really!
Even Russ Anber who commentates for Canada, he emphasizes way more on the negative than on the positive. In terms of action, these olympics so far have provided us with great entertainment value in my opinion. Wilder was great!

I guess we as people prefer the negative, just watching the news every day it's terrible. We're drawn to negative but forget me and my life lessons.

That was frustrating to watch. The ref seemed to willingly turn a blind eye to it and just let it go.

Wack post of the year.

u can go to usaboxing.org and read up on the rules and regulations. there is definitely some distaste from pro boxing fans...but once u have been around the amateur game long enough it's a bit easier to understand. i've seen the amateurs change throughout the years...i still enjoy olympic boxing and seeing future stars. it's easy to sit on the side lines and criticize how fights are scored but u have to take into consideration that all of the ppl involved in amateur boxing in the u.s. are pretty much volunteers who have kids who participate or ppl who just love boxing and want to be involved. i would say that most of the ppl involved have a lot more understanding that some of the so called fans.



without the amateur system to develop fighters....we'd be more like mma. no thanks...i'll keep amateur boxing.

Your post is more whack. You can't even expand on it.

Check this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olymp...lists_in_boxing and you tell me how many nations in addition to U.S. have had fighters who have won gold turn pro since 92. In all weight divisions.

I can't stand ignorant people who speak without doing any basic research, speaking out of their asses like that.

How do I put you on ignore my man, you're truly ignorant?

Yeah , when I was 15 and 17 I spent hard hours working on putting up the boxing ring for the national championships, didn't get paid a penny. Watched every single fight. I was at the gymansium for 7,8 hours not even getting anything to eat. Nobody seems to mention to weight thing too. You have to maintain 48 kilos, 51 kilos throughout. It's such a challenge.

I think the Pro boxing relates more to violence, and that's why I like it more. Amateur boxing on the other hand is more about skill and less about violence. That's not to say that professional fighters don't exhibit more skill than amateur fighters, I am talking about in general with the rules and regulations. But I love amateur boxing as well. I was raised with it.

Well this thread sure took a royal shit.

And his name is nacho.

You just can stand the fact that my logic beats your logic every time they meet.
You can get discarded now. Thank you in advance!

..........And his name is nacho.

You are such a joke. Without looking at the pathetic link you provide I can say that I understand that many nations have plenty of ams that never turn pro, I understand that in the US everybody turns pro, and I figure you cant possibly wrap your peabrain around anything somewhat logical. I know exactly what you are trying to say but I cant say the same thing about you regarding any of the posters(myself included,)that you dont agree with. If your comprehension level was close to average you would understand that you are 1 step above algae in the process of evolution. The ignore funtion is staring you in the face, uses it prick.

I'm stealing this one!~