Roberto Duran vs. Julian Jackson AT 160 Options

[crold1]

yeah...against the indomitable Darrin Van Horn.

[Sex Machine]

yeah...against the indomitable Darrin Van Horn.

Dont forget he beat Tommy Hearns again at `75..for a belt.Give the man his due.Iran Barkely was a tough,hard hitting and huge middleweight.He could be outboxed but he wasnt an easy night.

What did Julian do at Middleweight that was so impresive that Duran cant beat him? Beat Graham?..go life and death with Tate?..get blown out by McCellan twice?...

[crold1]

Blown out by McClellan? Life and death with tate. You;re making shit up. Tate was scored 8 and nine rounds to Jackson; the second McLClellan fight wasd a blowout but their first was named a top twenty middle title fight all-time by Ring and was turned on a vicious headbutt; not a punch. What did Duran do at 60? Lose to Barkley and get a sentimental decision...that's it. And no one said Barkley was an easy night; I just said he doesn't rate with the top ten of the post-Hagler blah blah...no shame in that. DEEP GROUP

[Sex Machine]

Blown out by McClellan? Life and death with tate. You;re making shit up. Tate was scored 8 and nine rounds to Jackson; the second McLClellan fight wasd a blowout but their first was named a top twenty middle title fight all-time

You havent seen Tate/Jackson then....McCellan KO1 Jackson...thats not making shit up that reporting what happened.He was KOd in the first fight as well so...yeah he was blown out.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I said before Duran wasn`t a dominant fighter at middleweight but he did give Hagler a good scrap..and he beat Barkely cleanly.Jackson wouldnt of had a prayer of going the distance with Marvin.

The point still stands at 160lbs Iran Barkely has a better resume than Julian Jackson.

[DrAndy]

I guess its possible but Barkely took Tommy Hearns punches pretty well.Iran was also the bigger guy.

Point is Duran was able to hurt and drop a solid chinned middleweight in Barkely.I dont think James Toney was even put the Blade down at `68..later on.I think Iran Barkely was a pretty solid middleweight.

He beat Kinchen,Scypion and Hearns...and lost razor close decisions to Duran and Nunn.I think thats probably better than anything Jackson did up at 160.Plus Iran went on to win the 168Lbs title.

Barkley's record is up and down. He took Tommy's punches pretty well, but was knocked down 3 times in round 1 by Nigel Benn. The 2nd Hearns fight was also at 175, and it's hard to say what kind of pop Tommy still had at that weight, considering other than the points win over Hill, he was fighting nobodies at that time.

Duran's win over Barkley was arguably the peak of what he did above 154. A very close win over an inconsistent guy like Barkley in his best outing, doesn't mean an easy win over Jackson.

I don't take exception with any argument that says Duran wins, because I think that's possible. I just don't see it being quick, easy, or one sided, and I think Jackson is better than being given credit for. I can see Duran being careful, picking his spots, and winning a decision. I can also see Jackson doing better than Barkley did, and possibly much better if he lands something big, which is far from out of the question.

The point still stands at 160lbs Iran Barkely has a better resume than Julian Jackson.

I agree, but having a better resume or being more accomplished doesn't equal being the winner of a proposed match-up. If we were to just go by accomplishments at 160, where would that leave Duran?

I said before Duran wasn`t a dominant fighter at middleweight but he did give Hagler a good scrap..and he beat Barkely cleanly.Jackson wouldnt of had a prayer of going the distance with Marvin.

You are probably right that Jackson wouldn't have gone the distance with Marvin, but it's Duran's defensive skills and ability to frustrate Hager that allowed him to. Hearns didn't go the distance with Hagler either, but that didn't mean he wasn't trouble for Duran.

[Sex Machine]

I believe Duran`s defense,chin and knowledge would be the difference here as well..I dont think I ever said it would be easy but I do think Duran would be in control of the flow of the fight.He would have to stay alert and not get nailed with a home run but Im pretty sure Jackson would be badly hurt at some point.I dont think hed see the finish.

As far as Duran`s resume at Middleweight...I guess it would be right there slightly above Julian Jackson`s...unless somebody can point to me the fighters he fought at that weight that were better than the fighters Duran faced.If Graham is his best win there is that really better than what Duran did?

[DrAndy]

As far as Duran`s resume at Middleweight...I guess it would be right there slightly above Julian Jackson`s...unless somebody can point to me the fighters he fought at that weight that were better than the fighters Duran faced.If Graham is his best win there is that really better than what Duran did?

Neither guy has a great resume.

[Sex Machine]

Basically I agree with you that it isnt an easy fight.Jackson would always be dangerous even if he was falling down.Where we differ is that I think Duran can hurt Julian and change the dynamics of the fight.Jackson then would be the hunted..I dont think he could handle that.

[DrAndy]

Basically I agree with you that it isnt an easy fight.Jackson would always be dangerous even if he was falling down.Where we differ is that I think Duran can hurt Julian and change the dynamics of the fight.Jackson then would be the hunted..I dont think he could handle that.

I think that's possible, just not likely. I think the way people see this match-up has more to do with how we all rate Jackson, than anything to do with Duran. Those that prefer Jackson, think more highly of him, than those that prefer Duran do. Jackson just wanted tested enough during his prime, to avoid any opinion of him coming more down to speculation than anything else.

[MBA Dog]

Jackson could drop him but I dont see a stoppage at all. Hearns caught Duran with successive nice one two's and had a blinding jab. IM not sure why Jackson should be compared to him.

Duran stops him at either weight.
Jackson was a world beater at 60lbs? Or better than Duran ever?

Exactly!!

No one should compare Jackson's Hail Marys to Hearns' calculated bombs!

[prodigious1]

How come Duran seems to have no trouble hurting Jackson but it seems like Julian can't hurt Duran? I definitely think he could hurt Duran wherever he hit him. Not KO him, but hurt him. Including to the body. That's some power he's never faced before and if he has, he didn't deal with it well. Julian Jackson hits much harder than The Blade. You need only to look at their delivery for proof.

Barkley let him Duran be in his chest all night long. Duran didn't just get in there. He was let in there because Barkley isn't that smart or good and thought it would be to his advantage as the bigger, stronger man. Jackson wouldn't let that happen.

It's a tough fight for both men. If Duran doesn't show up at 100% (which happened often), he's getting beat up.

This post has been edited by prodigious1: Mar 3 2007, 08:23 AM

[crold1]

I think Julian's resume is getting a bum rap. he would have been much better at 60, but he got dicked by politics. His eye got messed and he had contract issues with King; the WBC held him up. Then he resigns with King but cant get unification.

[Ruthless Bastard]

What was Jackson at one point? 44-0 with 42 KOs?

Ok, lets do this. How about Jackson vs. Duran at 154?

[prodigious1]

nevermind.

This post has been edited by prodigious1: Mar 3 2007, 08:50 AM

[crold1]

He was 32-0; got stopped in two by McCallum and then went on a pretty good run.

[DrAndy]

I think Julian's resume is getting a bum rap. he would have been much better at 60, but he got dicked by politics. His eye got messed and he had contract issues with King; the WBC held him up. Then he resigns with King but cant get unification.

Julian's resume gets a bum rap, because he just didn't face top guys during his prime, which wasn't his fault. His best years were in his mid to late 20's, and at that time, he was destroying everyone he faced. Unfortunately, his detractors can point to the fact that nearly all of those guys were nobodies, but I feel he would have done well if he had faced better fighters during that time.

Most aggressive fighters are shadows of what they were by the time get to their early 30's. He was already 32, when the Tate fight that ETM said he struggled in took place. How many all out offensive guys are still doing much at that age? Very very few.

[DrAndy]

Exactly!!

No one should compare Jackson's Hail Marys to Hearns' calculated bombs!

Saying Jackson threw Hail Mary's is stretching things. He did perhaps over commit to his shots, and certainly wasn't precise. But he did certain things well, that get results. He went to the body. He threw combos. He followed up power shots, with power shots. After throwing a right hand, he often came right back immediately with the left hook. You can call it lucky when something big lands, but when you are putting punches together, that often happens.

Obviously he wasn't Hearns, but that doesn't mean he was Mayorga.

[crold1]

Look, Jackson was no world beater. As you see, I don't even think he was one of the top five of his period. However, what does Duran ahng his hat on? Two fights. Hagler (nice effort), Moore (Jackson would have iced that kid too), and Barkley (who could barely hang with the best guys of his era, the sole reason he kept getting fights with guys from a preceding era). There's a reason Leonard, Hearns etc. didn't fight guys like Nunn, Kalambay and Eubak: age and economics. They could make money against each other (and an action guy like Iran) without messing with young hungry guys five/ten years younger. The one time one of them missed with a young guy, Norris made Leonard look foolish. It's not a new thing. Robinson wasn't messing with young slick faster guys in his mid-30's either. If he fought younger guys, he fought face first ones he could hang with.

Jackson at 154/60 was younger and prime; Duran was past it at both weights.

[prodigious1]

What Crold and Doc said/ have been saying.

The shot Jackson knocked Graham out with wasn't some caveman club. Nor was the right hand that separated Norris from his senses.

[crold1]

No, the shot on Norris was perfect. He spotted the opening and shot a gap. At 154, Jackson had some serious wins. Norris, Baek...those were class fighters. Tate wasn't great but that's a solid win too. Everyone remembers what Jones did but never consider how much damage Jackson put on him. Tate manned up and took SHOTS that fight...and could never take them again. Tate would have been hell for most 160 versions of Duran. Like someone said before, Norris would have f'd Duran up at 154 both on their best night.

[Ruthless Bastard]

Like someone said before, Norris would have f'd Duran up at 154 both on their best night.

APA format demands you use proper citations and references:

And for it's worth, I think Terry Norris, one of Jackson's KO victims, would've executed Duran at 154, period.

[crold1]

LOL

[DrAndy]

What Crold and Doc said/ have been saying.

The shot Jackson knocked Graham out with wasn't some caveman club. Nor was the right hand that separated Norris from his senses.

The only fight I have of his, where Jackson looked anything like a caveman, was the Graham fight, and that can be excused due to the shape of his eye. Once his eye started closing up, he went into desperation mode that night.

[prodigious1]

But that counter right hook he landed to kill Graham has textbook.

[Sex Machine]

Julian overall had a good career and he fought some top fighters no question...Ive always liked the guy.If I diminished his resume it was only in response to those who said Barkely wasnt much at `160 or that Duran didnt do anything at `60.

In all honesty they were both past their best days at middleweight..which was where this matchup is.As Doc..said Jackson was already 32 by the time he fought Tate..in a tough fight.Ofcourse Duran was about 33 by the time he moved to middleweight and faced Hagler,Sims,Barkely.

Cant say Duran did nothing at middleweight without mentioning the same thing for the Hawk..thats my point. At `54 they were both better.Duran was quicker and Julian`s eyes hadnt deteriorated.

[PWillIsGod]

Maybe if Taylor had KO'd Jackson before McClellan had stopped him twice, I would say it might mean something. I suppose Saad Muhammad had a faulty chin as well, because he was stopped by a nobody after Qawi did it twice? Once a guy has been broken a couple times, it's very rare he comes back from it, or is the same as he was before.

You aren't predicting that Duran beats Jackson. You are saying he KO's him in a one sided fight. Point to 1 fight, where Duran did that to someone at 160 that had a pulse. Just one single example.

Jackson KO'd Graham at 160. A world class fighter, who had just been edged by McCallum and Kalambay. Unfortunately during Jackson's prime, he did fight mostly stiffs, and when he fought McClellan, he was already 32, and very few all out offensive fighters are still good at that age. He fought 3 world class guys before McCellan, a young Norris, McCallum and Graham. He won 2 of 3.

The shots that Duran hit Barkley with Jackson could not absorb. I do not see this fight being at all competetive. Ron, I was a Jackson fan but he gets overrated on this board to the point that it makes me sick

[CharlieSlim45]

I actually prefer Julian Jackson in this mythical matchup. For one, he is the larger, stronger and harder puncher of the two.

Also, keep in mind that as Duran moved up from lightweight into the higher weight classes, he left his punch behind. He didn't carry his power with him as he moved up to challenge much larger and stronger opponents.

In addition, being faced with stamina issues, lack of speed and a loss of power at Middleweight, makes this a very difficult matchup for Duran. Coupled, with the fact, that Jackson was a one punch bomber doesn't bode well for Duran. I like Julian Jackson by way of KO in round 3.

[PWillIsGod]

I actually prefer Julian Jackson in this mythical matchup. For one, he is the larger, stronger and harder puncher of the two.

Also, keep in mind that as Duran moved up from lightweight into the higher weight classes, he left his punch behind. He didn't carry his power with him as he moved up to challenge much larger and stronger opponents.

In addition, being faced with stamina issues, lack of speed and a loss of power at Middleweight, makes this a very difficult matchup for Duran. Coupled, with the fact, that Jackson was a one punch bomber doesn't bode well for Duran. I like Julian Jackson by way of KO in round 3.

Duran was a top p4p puncher at Lightweight. But he could still punch and he did so with perfect precision. No way jackson wins this fight. If they fought 100 times Duran would win every one of them.

[CharlieSlim45]

Duran stops him in the mid to late rounds with his boxing ability and counterpunching.Duran would have the radar to see Jackson`s shots coming enough to roll with them and take the steam out of them..while rocking back with wicked righthands...mixing in hooks and uppercuts to the body..slowly Julian would wilt.

Id take this one to the bank..Duran wins.

I agree, with a lot of what you have to say regarding this mythical matchup. However, there are points that are missing. By the time Duran grew into the 160lb division, he didn't carry his power with him. He left his punch down at the lightweight division.

Also, by the time Duran was 160lber, he was considerably much slower and easier to find as opposed to his earlier years at lightweight. In addition, the heavier weight he was carry on his rather small frame, appeared to have had taken a significant toll on his energy and stamina. His punch output had markedly decreased forcing him to choose his offensive spots very carefully.

In addition, by the time he turned middleweight he had no legs as in times past, to cut off the ring of his opponents. The extra 30 lbs, had really taken its toll on his body. This is was why Ray Leonard was able to box circles around him in the very same year he defeated Iran Barkley in 89.

Furthermore, by the time he turned 160, he was not the same fighter as he once was. He went from being a classic boxer puncher to just a mere counterpuncher. That's why he would frequently let minutes of each round pass by without throwing a single punch because it was his way of attempting to conserve energy in the later rounds.

Now lastly, he would often fight in spurts and look to counter his opponents. This is what he used to defeat Iran Barkley back in 1989, because Barkley was foolish enough to stand right in front of Duran and trade with him. This gave Duran many countering scoring opportunities. However, if Iran was a huge puncher he would have easily stopped Duran as William Joppy did back in 1998.

This post has been edited by CharlieSlim45: Mar 8 2007, 03:59 PM

[PWillIsGod]

Barkley was a very big puncher and lets not compare a 37 yr old to a 47 yr old Duran......ok.

Did you see the Barkley fight? He hit Duran with a left hook in the 8th round that spun him around exorcist style. Duran could take what Jackson had to give and no one would stop Duran easily.

He certainly didn't push Hearns but he had to literally hit him with the kitchen sink and Duran still beat the 10 count.

Foolish child.

I suppose Jackson would employ lateral movement and ring generalship to not stand in front of Duran?