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Newtown CT Shooting


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#91 RayTheBest

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

View PostRODEMEYER, on 08 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Just wondering if we outlawed mentally ill people
would the world be a safer place?

How can you outlaw people? Are you saying it is even thinkable to outlaw people based on their illness, race, social status, etc? That's not even similar to gun possession.

#92 RayTheBest

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

View Postboner, on 04 January 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

that's not true, and even if it was, it would be no comfort to put it mildly. gov't/police brutality is a FAR bigger US and global problem than school shootings.

I just don't think owning assault rifles or hand guns helps us solve that bigger problem, and it sure as hell exacerbates the random shootings problem.

I'm not saying the cotrol by the government of police is in order 100% of the time. Sure, police brutality takes place and sometimes I feel like bashing up those pricks myself, but it's like you can't keep the doctors away from the hospitals and treat yourself, worrying about the potential negligence by them.

#93 RayTheBest

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostSpontaneousFury, on 05 January 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Do you have any statistics associated with your statement?  What is the percentage of criminals carrying vs registered carriers? Additionally, to say that guns can only "create problems" is clearly false.

Basically, you want guns to protect yourself. However, would you feel safe in a theatre where everyone in the audience hides a gun in their pocket? I don't think we should go back to the days of John Wayne. You won't feel safer even if you have guns. There's nothing you need guns for, but when the guns are at the hands of reckless guys, it becomes very dangerous.

#94 RODEMEYER

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostRayTheBest, on 10 January 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

How can you outlaw people? Are you saying it is even thinkable to outlaw people based on their illness, race, social status, etc? That's not even similar to gun possession.

FDR did it
and people think he was one of our greatest presidents

#95 RayTheBest

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

View PostRODEMEYER, on 10 January 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

FDR did it
and people think he was one of our greatest presidents

That was a long time ago, RODE, and sometimes it is inappropriate to judge what happened in the past by the standard of modern society. Back in the days, losing virginity befor marriage was a crime, if you know what I mean.

#96 RODEMEYER

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:09 AM

so how do we keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill?

#97 RayTheBest

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:34 AM

View PostRODEMEYER, on 11 January 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

so how do we keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill?

Very simple. Ban them and mentally ill people won't get their hands to them.

#98 RODEMEYER

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:17 AM

View PostRayTheBest, on 11 January 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

Very simple. Ban them and mentally ill people won't get their hands to them.

should we ban alcohol to keep it away from drunk drivers?
should we ban prescription meds to keep them away from those that misuse and abuse them?
should we ban heroin and crack to keep it away from the junkies?

Drunk driving kills more people in the US than guns
and
the abuse of prescription meds kill twice as much as both of those combined each year.

I don't have the answers but I know banning guns won't work

#99 Smelodies

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:17 AM

For all their intelligence, I don't think the founding fathers had the foresight to see what weaponry would evolve into.

#100 RayTheBest

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostRODEMEYER, on 11 January 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

should we ban alcohol to keep it away from drunk drivers?
should we ban prescription meds to keep them away from those that misuse and abuse them?
should we ban heroin and crack to keep it away from the junkies?

Drunk driving kills more people in the US than guns
and
the abuse of prescription meds kill twice as much as both of those combined each year.

I don't have the answers but I know banning guns won't work

If you don't need alcohols in a party, or some cool beer after work on a hot summer night, then you may ban alcohol.

We can ban heroin and crack. They are not required for our daily lives either.

Prescription medicines are different, though. They are necessary for the treatment of some medical conditions, but are guns a necessity in our lives? Despite the adverse effects and possible abuse, prescription medicines are needed for certain treatments, so we have to use them. Would you ban all the cars just because they cause accidents and death? You can't ban the necessities for the unwanted results they cause, but guns are different matters. We CAN live without guns.

Edited by RayTheBest, 11 January 2013 - 02:12 PM.


#101 Oliver's Tears

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

View PostRayTheBest, on 11 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

If you don't need alcohols in a party, or some cool beer after work on a hot summer night, then you may ban alcohol.

Now you've gone too far.

#102 RayTheBest

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

View PostOliver, on 11 January 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Now you've gone too far.

Clearly, I'm asking RODE back whether it is possible for the people to live without alcohol, if you read my statement carefully. If not, we can't ban it.

#103 Oliver's Tears

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

We don't need any beverage except water.  So your rationale would be banning alcohol.  It'd also ban lemonade on a summer day. If what we needed dictated what we are allowed to have, we'd be all be living some sort of minimalist nightmare.

#104 RODEMEYER

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

View PostRayTheBest, on 11 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:


We can ban heroin and crack. They are not required for our daily lives either.


I think maybe we should

#105 boyakasha!

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

Never had access to heroine, but crack is a lot of fun. Makes you feel on top of the world.

#106 RayTheBest

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:13 AM

View PostOliver, on 11 January 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

We don't need any beverage except water.  So your rationale would be banning alcohol.  It'd also ban lemonade on a summer day. If what we
needed dictated what we are allowed to have, we'd be all be living some sort of minimalist nightmare.

Well, you don't need cars by the same rationale. You just have to limit your life style within your local areas. However, I think it would be just plain silly to do so.

Guns and alcohols or cars are completely different matters. Guns doesn't improve our life style at all. Having some beer with your friends after work can actually be beneficial to you mentally and socially. Well, if you don't drink at all and want to argue that alcohol is unncessary, your opinion should be respected IMHO and I wouldn't say too much against it.

Also, I have already mentioned that we can just make hiring sport guns legal so that if you want to go for a shooting or hunting, you can just hire one from registered offices. We just need to ban the private possession of the guns.

#107 Smelodies

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

http://www.hsph.harv...-use/index.html

#108 boyakasha!

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

Smel, you should describe what your links are all about instead of just posting the fucking link. You trick people into clicking on your worthless links, then those people hate you more than they already did.

Just speaking for myself.

#109 Oliver's Tears

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostRayTheBest, on 12 January 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Well, you don't need cars by the same rationale. You just have to limit your life style within your local areas. However, I think it would be just plain silly to do so.

Guns and alcohols or cars are completely different matters. Guns doesn't improve our life style at all. Having some beer with your friends after work can actually be beneficial to you mentally and socially. Well, if you don't drink at all and want to argue that alcohol is unncessary, your opinion should be respected IMHO and I wouldn't say too much against it.

Also, I have already mentioned that we can just make hiring sport guns legal so that if you want to go for a shooting or hunting, you can just hire one from registered offices. We just need to ban the private possession of the guns.

Remember, this is your rationale, not mine.  It is interesting that you're rationalizing your own comforts as necessities.  You should totally emphasize with gun owners since they do the same exact thing.  Alcohol isn't beneficiary.  Not in any single way.  It's fucking awesome, but it's not beneficiary.  You want it to be, because you like it.  I like it too.  But you're rationalizing it as something more because you made an insane argument (needs = what we're allowed to have), and you're trying to stick with it by making drinking beers with your friends as beneficial to mental health.  Alcohol is a fun activity.  Kind of like shooting guns.  It's also dangerous (kind of like shooting guns).  In the wrong hands, it can kill people (kind of like shooting guns).

Also, "guns don't improve our lifestyle at all," is completely narrow minded, and probably a case of you thinking your lifestyle represents everybody's lifestyle.  You live in the suburbs, or the city?  Me too.  We don't need guns.  I agree. I don't own one either.  But try living in the country, taking care of a homestead, or a farm without a rifle.  Renting from an office?  Try getting in your car, renting a rifle, and getting back home in time to stop a bear, or a coyote from killing the livestock that puts money and food on your families table.  A gun is much closer to a necessity to those people than you drinking with your retarded friends.

Edited by Oliver's Tears, 12 January 2013 - 01:36 PM.


#110 Smelodies

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:06 PM

View Postboyakasha!, on 12 January 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Smel, you should describe what your links are all about instead of just posting the fucking link. You trick people into clicking on your worthless links, then those people hate you more than they already did.

Just speaking for myself.

The link was to point out that crack smokers with anger management issues should not be allowed to carry guns.

#111 boyakasha!

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:29 PM

View PostSmelodies, on 12 January 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:



The link was to point out that crack smokers with anger management issues should not be allowed to carry guns.
You should have said that in your post.

#112 RayTheBest

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:17 AM

View PostOliver, on 12 January 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Remember, this is your rationale, not mine.  It is interesting that you're rationalizing your own comforts as necessities.  You should totally emphasize with gun owners since they do the same exact thing.  Alcohol isn't beneficiary.  Not in any single way.  It's fucking awesome, but it's not beneficiary.  You want it to be, because you like it.  I like it too.  But you're rationalizing it as something more because you made an insane argument (needs = what we're allowed to have), and you're trying to stick with it by making drinking beers with your friends as beneficial to mental health.  Alcohol is a fun activity.  Kind of like shooting guns.  It's also dangerous (kind of like shooting guns).  In the wrong hands, it can kill people (kind of like shooting guns).

Also, "guns don't improve our lifestyle at all," is completely narrow minded, and probably a case of you thinking your lifestyle represents everybody's lifestyle.  You live in the suburbs, or the city?  Me too.  We don't need guns.  I agree. I don't own one either.  But try living in the country, taking care of a homestead, or a farm without a rifle.  Renting from an office?  Try getting in your car, renting a rifle, and getting back home in time to stop a bear, or a coyote from killing the livestock that puts money and food on your families table.  A gun is much closer to a necessity to those people than you drinking with your retarded friends.

Do you think we should allow every single country in the world to have nuclear weapons?

Also, what is the percentage of population who live in the country? Do you think the vast majority of guns in USA are in the country areas? You can always make exemptions to the people in the areas where guns are a necessity.

Also, don't fucking call my friends retarded.

#113 Oliver's Tears

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

Gun Ownership Percentage by State
  • 1. Wyoming - 59.7%
  • 2. Alaska - 57.8%
  • 3. Montana - 57.7%
  • 4. South Dakota - 56.6%
  • 5. West Virginia - 55.4%
  • 6. Mississippi - 55.3%
  • 6. Idaho - 55.3%
  • 6. Arkansas - 55.3%
  • 9. Alabama - 51.7%
  • 10. North Dakota - 50.7%
  • 11. Kentucky - 47.7%
  • 12. Wisconsin - 44.4%
  • 13. Louisiana - 44.1%
  • 14. Utah - 43.9%
  • 14. Tennessee - 43.9%
  • 16. Oklahoma - 42.9%
  • 16. Iowa - 42.9%
  • 18. South Carolina - 42.3%
  • 19. Kansas - 42.1%
  • 20. Vermont - 42.0%
  • 21. Missouri - 41.7%
  • 21. Minnesota - 41.7%
  • 23. North Carolina - 41.3%
  • 24. Maine - 40.5%
  • 26. Oregon - 39.8%
  • 27. Indiana - 39.1%
  • 28. Nebraska - 38.6%
  • 29. Michigan - 38.4%
  • 30. Texas - 35.9%
  • 31. Virginia - 35.1%
  • 32. New Mexico - 34.8%
  • 33. Colorado - 34.7%
  • 33. Pennsylvania - 34.7%
  • 35. Nevada - 33.8%
  • 36. Washington - 33.1%
  • 37. Ohio - 32.4%
  • 38. Arizona - 31.1%
  • 39. New Hampshire - 30.0%
  • 40. Delaware - 25.5%
  • 41. Florida - 24.5%
  • 42. California - 21.3%
  • 42. Maryland - 21.3%
  • 44. Illinois - 20.2%
  • 45. New York - 18%
  • 46. Connecticut - 16.7%
  • 47. Rhode Island - 12.8%
  • 48. Massachusetts - 12.6%
  • 49. New Jersey - 12.3%
  • 50. Hawaii - 6.7%
Our world is a lot different than whatever the fuck goes on in Wyoming.  Let Wyoming people have guns.  Predictably rural living areas (farmlands, homesteads, places like that) have the highest percentage of population owning firearms.  And they should.  If I could come into contact with bears going to my mailbox, I'd be packing.

As for nuclear weapons, I wish nobody had them, but I also cringe when we tell countries they can't have them when we do.  I'm conflicted there.  Nuclear power is dangerous, but beneficial.  Nuclear weapons? Actual candidate for your no good can come from them list.

#114 Smelodies

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

View PostOliver, on 13 January 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Gun Ownership Percentage by State
  • 1. Wyoming - 59.7%
  • 2. Alaska - 57.8%
  • 3. Montana - 57.7%
  • 4. South Dakota - 56.6%
  • 5. West Virginia - 55.4%
  • 6. Mississippi - 55.3%
  • 6. Idaho - 55.3%
  • 6. Arkansas - 55.3%
  • 9. Alabama - 51.7%
  • 10. North Dakota - 50.7%
  • 11. Kentucky - 47.7%
  • 12. Wisconsin - 44.4%
  • 13. Louisiana - 44.1%
  • 14. Utah - 43.9%
  • 14. Tennessee - 43.9%
  • 16. Oklahoma - 42.9%
  • 16. Iowa - 42.9%
  • 18. South Carolina - 42.3%
  • 19. Kansas - 42.1%
  • 20. Vermont - 42.0%
  • 21. Missouri - 41.7%
  • 21. Minnesota - 41.7%
  • 23. North Carolina - 41.3%
  • 24. Maine - 40.5%
  • 26. Oregon - 39.8%
  • 27. Indiana - 39.1%
  • 28. Nebraska - 38.6%
  • 29. Michigan - 38.4%
  • 30. Texas - 35.9%
  • 31. Virginia - 35.1%
  • 32. New Mexico - 34.8%
  • 33. Colorado - 34.7%
  • 33. Pennsylvania - 34.7%
  • 35. Nevada - 33.8%
  • 36. Washington - 33.1%
  • 37. Ohio - 32.4%
  • 38. Arizona - 31.1%
  • 39. New Hampshire - 30.0%
  • 40. Delaware - 25.5%
  • 41. Florida - 24.5%
  • 42. California - 21.3%
  • 42. Maryland - 21.3%
  • 44. Illinois - 20.2%
  • 45. New York - 18%
  • 46. Connecticut - 16.7%
  • 47. Rhode Island - 12.8%
  • 48. Massachusetts - 12.6%
  • 49. New Jersey - 12.3%
  • 50. Hawaii - 6.7%
Our world is a lot different than whatever the fuck goes on in Wyoming.  Let Wyoming people have guns.  Predictably rural living areas (farmlands, homesteads, places like that) have the highest percentage of population owning firearms.  And they should.  If I could come into contact with bears going to my mailbox, I'd be packing.

As for nuclear weapons, I wish nobody had them, but I also cringe when we tell countries they can't have them when we do.  I'm conflicted there.  Nuclear power is dangerous, but beneficial.  Nuclear weapons? Actual candidate for your no good can come from them list.


Only thing is, the second amendment that gun control critics love to cite says the right to keep and bear "arms," which would actually include munitions, stingers, nukes, etc.

Edited by Smelodies, 14 January 2013 - 10:36 AM.


#115 Oliver's Tears

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

View PostSmelodies, on 14 January 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Only thing is, the second amendment that gun control critics love to cite says the right to keep and bear "arms," which would actually include munitions, stingers, nukes, etc.

I don't think people in Montana want nukes.

Edited by Oliver's Tears, 14 January 2013 - 04:08 PM.




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